Epilepsy - Meerdyke Machk's short life - Page 7

hundmutter - well done!

We're not necessarily looking just at Quadrilles father, his mother was a granddaughter of Allegro of Seacroft who was reputedly a producer of epilepsy.  I chose Quadrille as, even though we have no proof his condition was hereditary, we do know he actually had fits (admitted though made excuses for) and Quebec, Ludwig and Philanderer did not.

Margaret N-J

The point in mentioning the connection back to Ludwig is to draw attention to just how widespread the problem has become from the connection between these animals.   Also, just how far forward has the disease travelled.  We will never know but care should be taken if and when a mating is planned with these animals in any pedigree.   Also, did Germany experience any epilepsy from the German connection to these dogs.


Mackenzie

Not according to the SV, even though at least one German import (a Weinerau dog) was withdrawn from stud because he produced it, don't know if he was actually a fitter.  I've not heard of any pure German ones in recent years.  I do find it rather odd that this dog popped up within a decade of Quadrille though which does make me wonder if there was more than just hereditary epilepsy going on at the time.  In the past, I have asked some breeders I know in Germany about epilepsy and they have never heard of it in German Shepherds, in Eastern Germany it was only known as a side effect of distemper, so I don't think they ever had the problem as we did.

Margaret N-J

No, probably hasn't been such a problem in Germany, although I'll bet there have been some
cases that have been hushed up.  Its not as if epilepsy is completely unknown in the country,
other breeds have been acknowledged as having it (and some breeds are almost as closely
controlled as the SV does GSDs).

The origins, in the sense of how far back they go even if we cannot identify one dog or family
of dogs where it definitely started, are reasonably well documented;  come on, though, people,
we now actually need to be looking at practices in much more recent times, which have BUILT on
those problem-dogs.  150 lines to Eclipse, 175 lines to Quadrille - my argument is that I can see
how it has gone over the past 40 - 50 years from public resources, so why has the KC failed to
see those links ?

The SV play health problems close to the chest and actually don't really acknowledge any except for EH/HD.  According to Malcolm Willis several German dogs were known to have produced one or more fitting progeny, Derby von der Schinklergrenze, Nestor, Ilk and others. and this didn't include what he called less important dogs.   So for the SV to disavow any cases of epilepsy is disingenuous. There are dogs from all German lines producing epilepsy today, it can't only be happening 'outside' of Germany. My trainer lost her all german lines dog a few years ago to epilepsy at three and a half, but I could not persuade her to give the pedigree to Chris Hazell. I don't know if this was some kind of misplaced loyalty to the breeder, or whether she was concerned at what the breeder's reaction would be. She should have known better.

It is not only a case of pedigrees being built on problem lines like this. There are also the cases where we have epilepsy cropping up where people are keeping it quiet,which may be totally unrelated to these known lines, and no-one is speaking out. We do not know what modern dogs are implicated. Thus, no-one knows whether a new 'problem' line is beginning to form, and whether those problems are being doubled up on. One day it may be in the history books like Quadrille, but this is no use to us now.  If the KC did have a reporting system for cases of epilepsy, supported with veterinary evidence, we may be able to build a picture, and determine emerging patterns/producers in real time. As things stand a dog has to be long dead (especially if it is a well known dog) before this information comes to light, by which time tragedy has already struck. If there was an official KC reporting system I believe far more people would be encouraged to let the KC know when they had an epileptic dog, especially if encouraged to do so to help the health of the breed, rather than discouraged by the concern over the flak they may receive from the breeder/dog breeding community.

Good on you Linda. Let us know whether you need any support with letters to the KC.

Abby, thanks - I will do.  Give me a few days to finish sorting out how I'm going to phrase it ...

Firstly, Baileyboy, so very very sorry for your loss.

 

Secondly I have read this topic with interest as it is something, a few will remember, my having asked questions about whilst on a search for my next Gsd.

During my search, I have come across lots of pedigrees of puppies that I have been put off of, based on my little knowledge of lines with known producers.  A lot of descendants of those dogs are not mentioned on here which leads me to enquire would it be acceptable for persons searching to add perspective puppy pedigrees to here, that are known to contain problems in their ancestry? If not here some other sort of database?  

 

 

Luvbug. Were these puppies from any names mentioned on meerdyke machk pedigree?
Also where did you get the information that these dogs could have infected lines. If it was from the german shepherd breed council, then the info is already recorded.
IMO. It is ok to add pedigrees if they are on your own dogs pedigree. But I dont know what kind of sticky ground you would be treading on if adding other people's pups pedigrees and the associate them with heridary illness without proof?
Did you manage to find a pup for yourself?

Hi Baileyboy

We have got so caught up in history and the KC, I think this comment of yours may have been overlooked

"It just seems so unfair!  The breeder has her money and I have nothing!"

It IS terribly unfair and I wonder if anything can be done about it.  I don't know this breeder or her dogs, but obviously you would not want a replacement puppy from her, can't imagine anyone would.  Has she made any kind of offer at all?  What would you like her to do to try to even things up a little?  If you have the stomach for it, you might be able to make a claim through the Small Claims Court or one of these No Win No Fee solicitors.  Might even make her think twice about continuing to breed with these lines.

Margaret N-J