Czech Bloodlines. - Page 7

Hans, I thought Tamara was looking at the wrong dog or at the least didn't know who we were talking about to start.

Whisper, First off she needs to first know what she is talking about before she comes her saying what she has about Klara being a good dog to line breed on. As for your knee problem, well that has nothing to do with what was being talked about here Tamara doesn't know about these Czech lines like she comes off like she knows, although I do know some about these lines and have a kennel full of Czech dogs I'm still learning about the lines and only stating what I know rather than talking about nothing that makes any sense.

Geordiegaviino, Sorry I wasn't trying to highjack your thread, As for the Czech lines, I haven't found any other lines that I like other than these. Yes there are nothing like the old lines and if we are not careful here with our breeding of them they will soon be forever gone.

When we see Klara in the lines, yes she has some influience in the lines, but have see a lot of other dogs brought to them to fix the flaws she brought with the good. This might be why Tamara's male has Titus in after Klara to do just that. I have seen the the Czech's have brought Titus in to fix a lot of lines as he was know to improve structure. I only wish I would have seen some dogs brought to him that were as good or if not better than him. Just think of the lines that could have came from that. I myself would choose some of the old Chech lines before choosing some of the newer ones coming over today

Ghostly yes I do tend to agree if you do not have the ability to deeper study the pedigree. But properly  done line breeding on Klara in 4,5,6,7 generations back  had been tried many times with success.Klara ads a lott of drive and hardness, which is good.  Line breeding on Gero and Grim( supposedly big NO NO!!!) improved hips in many generations. Back some time ago I was concerned about it too. But I am no more as concerbned about it since I have seen it done and done properly (!) and it improved hips for many generations to come . So now what? There are other much worse dogs on which people haphazardly  line breed only because they do not know anything about them. I could tell you stories......

  When you have Klara or any dog with problem (just about 100% of dogs) and if  you are concerned about it then you need to determine if the problem is getting better, same  or worse in subsequent generations of the dogs on the pedigree and on peds of  their litter mates and on peds of  their progeny.  With Klara, and any dog for that matter(!!!), it can go either way. If after such problem there is steady or worse I stay away from it. If it is getting better or eliminated then I do not worry about it. And I cross it with a good hips line. Remember my example of two decs of cards which I have mentioned above. Keep the decs stacked in your favor and keep pushing the gentic problem to the bottom of the deck.  That is all. But the funny thing is that Klara is not the only dog to be concerned about.  The fact is that there are some dogs known to breeding public to have problems and rest is improperly considerd good. Hog wash! There are myriads of dogs with same, similar, different  or worse problems and people do not know about them,... so they do not worry about them.  Klara is so far back that her influence usually is minimal . There are 254 dogs or so in 7 generations and 510 in 8! Yes the influence if dominant will carry through, but if it is overridden and the problem is getting better then I do not care. 1/510th is nothing. Remember the rule :

Proof is in the pudding.
If you have in last 3-5 youngest  generation no problem which was of concern in a  dog in 7 th or further then the problem was pushed to the bottom of the deck. It is not gone,... it never will. But remember even wolf will develop bad hips in 3+ generations of captivity breeding.  (Again: Reread the example in erlier post about the deck of cards.)

Now hips are only one such problem. Do not forget the other problems. That is why it chops my hide when people are claiming Old Czech lines and they have no clue about 90% or any problems of the dogs on the pedigree, their littermates and their progeny and are breeding by exterior type (big heads dark sable is a current fad)  and hips. Because that is all they can see. I understand that . But that is wrong!
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

 Im just learning as well and just responded from what I have been hearing of Klara from other breeders I talk to almost daily..I have 3 as well ..dogs with czech and am only wanting to learn more about them and who better to learn from as Hans and my other contacts...

Prager, I am enjoying reading your info and really appreciate your sharing of it. Thank you.

Actually there were 5 Klara's, but the one everyone worries about is the one from 1978.

sometimes its convenient for people that breed and have problems  , to have a dog in the pedigree too blame for it all

if you breed problems , dont look at who is on the fifth generation of your dogs pedigree ,but take a look at what you have in the kennel/home

Prager,

thanks again for your informative posts. I'll say it again, I am really glad you're still with us.

Best Wishes,

D

There's three different parties of this thread that have only one or two posts, that appearantly signed up for this board just to commend Hans?

Hans, I've asked this a couple times before, but you did not know at the time; In regards to your concerns about Girsha in the Faro Policia pedigree, have you ever known Faro to have produced bad elbows among his offspring in Slovakia or the Czech Republic?  If so, please specify who.

 Prager,.....this is out of curiosity.  I know what I've read about my males sire, Mambo z Pohranicni Straze.  But other than what you see on the internet, what is your opinion on this dog, and what he offers to the breed?