e-collar controversy - Page 7

Hello, I just watched your vid, and Stillwell was very critial of other trainers, it's clear she feels very strongly about the subject. To her credit, I'm sure there are people and trainers who use these collars in ways that are not humane. I think it's also a shame they are for sale at pet stores and I believe they should only be used by (or under supervision of) a professional trainer.  I find it interesting how "e-collar trainers" (defined by having a program based on e-collars and use one on every dog) are constantly defending them.  It seems to take so much energy and time just to defend the use of the collar.  I also see some trainers covering it up with bandanas which I don't think is right, you should stand behind what you believe in.

Stillwell can be refered to as an "all positive" trainer, so her strong opinions on electronic collars are not surprising. There are organizations that are trying to ban these collars completely. I lost any respect for Stillwell while watching one of her episodes, when the dog had a specific behavior issue that I felt would get worse and possibly lead to aggression issues, her solution was to ignore it and it would go away-- I did not see that as being the case, some behaviors do need to be corrected. I don't think she gave the best solution to the owners. I am for a more balanced type of dog trainining.

I think your video makes your point very well. The video may be a little "pushy" for some. But your dogs do, indeed, look happy.  Wether that is due to being in drive (I see use of treats, tug) or they are just happy with the training overall, could be debated.

This is in reply to posts by Beast, regarding operant conditioning and no corrections, it is a good article by another author:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tsuro/_articles/real_training.html

 Thank you doberdoodle.  Very interesting article, it has sparked a few questions in my mind. I'll go over it more thoroughly when I have the chance. It does have some very valid points, regarding +ROC that have had me wondering in the past. I'll be sure to post my questions on this board, once I can sort out my thoughts and really absorb the article. I'd do it now but I'm very distracted at the moment!

Thanks again for posting. This was one of the only "opposing" articles I've read that actually seems to have legitimate rebuttal. However, it did seem like the author took things "a bit personal", in some sections.... oh well, nobodies perfect, right?

I would like to read a truly unbiased article regarding training theory, supporting the use of aversives. I've found a few that may (if you squint really hard) be considered as such.....but as I said, that would be stretching it. 

If you have any similar articles, please share!  (I may have to start a new thread about this, so we don't hijack deathrows thread)

I love learning about this stuff.......you can never move forward if you're standing still.

Bullcrap.  It feels like a shock, therefore I can call it a shock collar.

A pinch collar sort of pinches, and that's what it's called.......  Or maybe we should start calling it "P-Collar, "pinch" is too negative sounding for me   Now everytime I hear someone call it prong or pinch collar, which implies pain, I will correct them and say "It's a p-collar, and they barely feel it!!  It's as comfortable as lying on a bed of nails!"   It's not a "choke chain" it's a "c-collar!!!  C for Correct!"   

very nice lief.  takes some guts to put yourself out there like that. 

joe parks

thanks Joe I have over 1700 videos on youtube,so I'm used to being ''out there'', I am passionate about what I do if nothing else!!

this is a deaf dog that we are in the process of training it had been returned to the pound three times partly because the deaf thing and partly because it has issues with getting hinky,real hinky around food but I think the end result will be a success and considering it was slated to be put down it probably views getting ''shocked'' as the lesser of two evils I will post the graduation video at the end of the training

 Training a dog obedience has multiple purpose. Two most important ones are:
1. Obedience itsef.
2. Establishing of the leadership position over the dog.
That is because dogs are pack oriented animals and they must have leader or they turn into one. 
Point one is achievable with electric collar and point two is not. Even the companies like TriTronics are saying that there is a virtue in training with the e collar because the dog does not associates the stimulation with the trainer/handler. However I see that as a problem. In order for the dog to undersatand that the trainer is in the leadership position the dog must see the fair negative to be comming from the trainer. 
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com