A look at conformation & movement of 2014 VAs - Page 6

C'mon lets step it up to where it is heading to....  

Blitzen, there's a reason that the dogs I typically like best out of the Siegerschau are rarely found in the VA category...and yes, I do believe Jimmy could do a better job of presenting just about any GSD, for sure. The man knows his game, and it's certainly not his fault that when it comes to this breed, owner/handlers have a tough row to hoe to finish their dogs on their own.

If we have to toss out all of the dogs that are sickle-hocked or cow-hocked from our board game, we'll sadly have very little to choose from.

And yes, seeofred, the performances in the TSB video that was posted were an embarassment, for the most part; that what we were seeing were dogs that were later awarded a VA rating speaks volumes about the politics--and the financial stakes--of the entire system.

By the same token, though, let me see if I can find some video from the 2013 WUSV event, in particular of the dogs from the Japanese team performing the retrieve over the A frame and panel jump. THAT was just as pitiful, and an equally loud statement about the politics and financial stakes of THAT part of the system as well.

Hi Hexe,

Ironically the GSL's have become all the things their breeders hate about the ASL's. Sickle hocks, cowhocks, overangulation behind, all flash and no action. Photoshop the toplines to make them flat and refine the male heads eliminating the hanging flews, apple skulls and too much stop and there you have it - an ASL, standing still that is. Moving is a far different issue; IMO quality ASL's have a much more efficient side gait than the best of the GSL's. The good ones can open their shoulder joints fully eliminating all the pounding and padding. I haven't seen many GSL's that can do that. Coming and going they are pretty much the same as far as I can tell. I haven't been to the BSZS yet, I'm planning to go next year, but judging by the photos and videos I don't think I'd like many of the Va dogs either. I believe I'd like the females a lot more than the males. They don't seem to be so overdone - yet. That holds true in other breeds too, the females are better, but they aren't the ones that get the credit. We see brood bitch classes at AKC specialties, non regular classes that have no effect on the outcome of the judging. I've not heard of any such thing at an SV show. Do they have progeny classes for the females at the BSZS?

Like you, I prefer a far more athletic looking dog, but it is and always will be about what the judges prefer on both sides of the pond - when we're talking about show dogs that is . 

Educative post Blitzen though I wish facts were different, but unfortunately you are far right .

here's a list of the 2013 BSZS placements. Please point out which ones are sicle hocked, over angled and all flash and no go. Also exactly what would be the purpose of photo shopping one type of dog to look like a different type. That argument is a head scratcher for me, but I'm always willing to learn from knowledgeable sources.Thanks in advance for the education.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/showresults.htm?year=2013

The purpose of photoshopping is to show the similarities in the GSL vs the ASL. It's academic.  You cannot tell a sickle hocked dog from a show photo. You must see the dog standing or walking naturally or moving in a video. You can generally tell which are overangulated in a still photo. Would need to see dogs working in some accepted venue to judge which are flash and which are not.

I for one do not like it much when some one critics the GSL, I don't feel happy about it, but on the other hand I can not deny that the show line became over angulated in the rear, the toplines and croups steeper, the hocks weaker, backs arched and withers lower. Maybe that is why I am enthusiastic about Djambo .

Ibrahim

Djambo rear angulation is no doubt an improvement to currect VAs, although it is still considered slightly deep on the scale of the standard, it is much less angulated than most if not all recent VAs.

These are ideal rear angles per standard

And here are Djambo's angles (approximate, but pretty close)

Please notice lower thigh angle with the horizontal which should be in ideal GSD 30, in Djambo it is 23 which is pretty close, most VAs have it closer to 15 . The smaller this angle the deeper (over angulated) is the rear.

Djambo's croup is slightly steep as most GSDs nowadays, though it is not too steep but it can not be considered an improvement as his rear angulation.

It is hard to hear negative commments about the dogs we favor, but there is always a need to keep it real and recognize what is going on in the GSD show world on both sides of the pond. Otherwise, we fall into the trap of only seeing what we want to see. Constructive criticism is never a bad thing IMO and it cuts both ways.

Djambo will most likely end up with a Va at the Sieger if he passes the bite work and if his progeny are well represented. I think he is a very appealing dog, beautiful type and structure judging by his photos..It always comes down to the perception of the judge as Susie has already stated here.

Here is dog from 1943 I have been waiting for a chance to post. I would think it is sickle hocked? Mosly we only get to see pictures of the best dogs of way back. But I think all the same problems were always there.
Volker von der Zeitzer Schweiz SchH2 Sire Born : 06. January 1943 SZ  571230