GSDCA Lawsuit - Letter of Clarification from the AKC - Page 6

 How's this Boo Boo:  A POUND PUPPY-- a German Shepherd not known to be of import parents or grandparents WON the USCA National Championship.  Look it up--Sheba, handled by Doug Deacon.

Sheba was a Labrador Mix born and bred in Canada so no US bred dog of any breed has ever won the USCA Nationals since 1978.  The answer is still not a single US bred ( no import parents or grandparents ) has ever been on or represented the USA at the WUSV or the IPO/Schutzhund World FCI championships.  I am assuming a "pound puppy" of unknown parentage (Lab Mix) from Canada would not be allowed at the WUSV or FCI Worlds on the USA team.  Despite being a "pound puppy" the dog SHEBA of unknown parentage which won the USCA Nationals in 1980 did not have a proven pedigree as the parents or grandparents could have still been GSD imports .. the answer remains that after 30+ years or more in the case of the WUSV trials the USA teams have never fielded a dog with a USA bred GSD pedigree at the FCI or WUSV world championships. 

Both Bob McKown & bubbabooboo, have valid point about the decline in membership in IPO focused venues with the USA.  But we must all keep the demographics issues in mind.  In Europe most FCI clubs register dogs, certify judges and use scorebook in a similar manner to the WUSV and VDH. So a junior handler doing FCI trialing, won't have much difficulty, if any at all, transitioning to the WUSV, DVG or VDH documentation and showing process. 

Not so in the USA, a current junior AKC handler would have great difficulty grasping the USCA, WDA or GSDCA/SV documentation and showing process.  The SV and VDH both have formal junior handler programs.  To make matters worse the, no such thing exisits for USCA or WDA.  I think very few, IF ANY, currently active junior AKC GSD handlers are going to ever seriously consider learning about the system used in USCA, DVG or WDA, in the near future.  They are going to explore it out of curiosity, realize that it is a convoluted process and surmise none of it is worth their time.  While this isn't a guaranteed prediction, it certainly is a realistic one.

The next big demographic issue is the median age of people whom are truly experienced in IPO within the USA.  I'd guess the median age of this group is easily above 60 years old.  Most newcomers that I see are mid to late 40's, with significantly less newbies under 30.  The issue is that no one talks about the "experience gap" between the "experienced 60+ year old folks" and the "40+ year old newcomers" whom at best have 5 years of dog handling experience, including EVERYTHING they have done from AKC CD to basic CGC obedience classes.  When those 60+ year old timers die, having passed on little knowledge to the current 40+ year old newbies, whom will be left to teach the 30 and under crowd?  Its going to be the biggest "brain drain" in USA dog training history.

My prediction is that there will be no one left to usher in the next generation and those whom were able to see the tail end of the "old timers" participation, won't know enough to pass on anything worthwhile to future new comers.  Europeans don't have this problem and never will, due to a robust, formal, junior handling programs and moderate uniformity with FCI regulations across borders. 

USA based FCI and IPO events are currently in great danger of going extinct because of poor apprentice programs and lack of dedication among the old guard, to pass on everything they know, BEFORE they die or become too elderly and disabled to participate in the sport. 

I'd bet my house the GSDCA knows this.  What their solution will be, I don't know, but they certainly know the reality of the situation.

mom:

              Europe also has a history of herding that the USA does not so the dog in there genetic make it was not first a pet but a necessity not so here in the USA so i,d expect there to be more drive and allegiance to a treasured historical beginning. AKC for years railed against the biting sports and until just recently( for more income) has acknowledged it. I have friends in the AKC who have been long standing. and the depth of there association with biting sports is minimal at best there are still a large majority who dismiss it completely. Example, Our local 4H program has a dog club all breeds are welcome but in big letters in the hand book "No dogs with protection or Schutzhund training allowed" They follow a AKC protocol ! I,ve had my dogs there even helped several kids with there obedience but im looked at like a leper.

 There are many members who have week long youth training camps for dog sport each year.  Our society here in the US is also different it,s fast fast fast win win win and wait for no one. Thats is why you see so many top competitors buying from Europe they buy young dogs from breeders that are ready to hit the field to train as soon as there out of the crate. they get dogs with tested drives and old enough to expose any genetic issues that would put a halt to training. Some times we allow the competitiveness to over shadow the  better goal but that is reality. They then have an alligence to these breedres who in turn supply them with dogs to showcase and in turn are better marketed to the public. To take a dog from birth to the podium is time consuming and takes alot of patience and work and yes that knowledge gets lost. But believe me there are still many raising there own litters and working there own dogs. The handfull of top competitors is a small percentage compared to the grass roots club members.   

Exposing children to raising and training K9,s is tuff and unless Mom and Dad are directly involved in it it will be particularly harder in the USA to bring in fresh blood but believe me I training with people who have kids involved in the sport. It,s on a much smaller scale then Europe but their there.

  I don,t know what bubbabooboos issue is but he is a doom and gloomer who constantly runs his mouth on a subject he obviously knows nothing about and that doesnt help the situation either. Maybe he went to a schutzhund club and his dog ran off the field or was laughed off but the chip on his shoulder can been seen a mile away. The problem will never be solved or helped by his type but by the workers and breeders and club members at the grass roots level who work every day with there dogs to reach higher goals. 

The GSDCA really has had little use for the working line dog there affiliation with there WDA was to fill a nitch needed to stay in good lite with the Germans and to be a thorn in the side to USCA for politcal reasons. Some times the truth hurts.

There are other factors at play with this whole US vs Euro GSDs, First is $$$. Most American breeders i spoke with when i was on the hunt for my current dog wanted a lot of money for their puppies. It was much cheaper for me to buy a dog in Germany and have it shipped to Arizona than it was to buy a dog from almost any US breeder i spoke with. I know that most will say that i must have bought a crap dog from a crap breeding and that is possible, but i have had too many experienced GSD people and judges tell me otherwise. If they are all wrong then i am happy to be ignorant. The other major difference i see between German vs American IPO are the clubs. We have all heard how in Germany, going to the SchH club is an all day or even all weekend event. Most clubs there have bunks for people to crash in along with having full restaurant style kitchens. I have yet to go to a club where this ideal is alive and well. From my limited experience, it appears that most club members find it hard to justify the 2-3 hours they attend their club once a week. Maybe if the 'cloud is falling' group is correct and SchH dies out except for the hard core group, then we might see this German club style evolve here.

I have no monkey in this circus.  Demographics can be very misleading without all the facts.  Average of those involved in dog clubs.  I personally know a few people who didn't get involved in this facet of dog showing till She and her husband's children were up and grown.  Up until that time she was so busy with here daughters' interests.  She is a good mom and he is a good dad.  So once the children were grown they could start developing interests of their own.  I know someone on this board was was very active and then she had some children.  Now her focus has had to change.  She still has an occasional of high quality pups but she doesn't have time to work her dogs like she would like.  She doesn't have time to devote every weekend and other time during the week for training.  So she no longer falls into those demographics.  When her children are older she will probably be involved again and will try to get them involved.  But then again their interests may not follow that line.

Exposing children to raising and training K9,s is tuff and unless Mom and Dad are directly involved in it it will be particularly harder in the USA to bring in fresh blood but believe me I training with people who have kids involved in the sport. It,s on a much smaller scale then Europe but their there.

@Bob McKown, I don't see the AKC having ANY trouble with this at all.  I see Junior handlers at AKC trials regularly.  I've never seen one at an IPO event other than training days.

Do the USCA or WDA have a webpage like this:

http://www.apps.akc.org/apps/kids_juniors/jr_getting_started.cfm

Please show me an equivilant forum where a junior handler is asking for advice about IPO and actually gets answers, like these AKC examples:

http://www.showdog.com/forum/read.aspx?id=381022

http://www.havaneseforum.com/showthread.php?t=3715

Webpages and forum posts are just the tip of the iceburg, the AKC puts a lot of effort into this and sees results.

@rtdmmcintyre, I think you misunderstood my demographics argument.  People whom leave the sport from life changes and then return later are not the ones tasked with "passing on the torch" to the next generation.  Its the ones whom have been continuously in the sport for decades, that do so most effectively. Its very clear, whether folks want to believe it or not, that within the USA, there is currently a VERY STRONG possibility of "knowledge die-out" in the IPO world within the next 10 years.  The "old timers' have held onto their "trade secrets" for far too long and are about to take it all with them when, either to the grave or the nursing home.  People like your friend that take hiatuses can't fill this "knowledge gap" when then they leave the sport for 10+ years and come back when things settle down in their life.  The "knowledgeable old timers" will be long gone before that. 

I only gave Europe as a contrasting example because its almost impossible for "knowledge die-out" to happen there, everything is simply to well organized due to robust, formal, junior handling programs and moderate uniformity with FCI regulations across borders.  I'll say it again, we are going to see the biggest "brain drain" in USA dog training history.  My prediction is that there will be no one left to usher in the next generation and those whom were able to see the tail end of the "old timers" participation, won't know enough to pass on anything worthwhile to future new comers. 

The fact that some are dismissing the possibility of this hapening is pure hubris. IPO in the USA is right on the same path as traditional hand-spinning and no one is doing a thing to try and stop it.

What I will say is that there are many youth in the sport but you will not see them for a few years becuase most have pups, like myself. My club is full of youth and I know a few others in So Cal that are the same. I dont think the

problem is as bad as some may think. I think like another mentioned, it's circular and there is a dip while pups grow and bam!!! it's back.

Also to Bubba.....

Chico just won the Nationals with his own breeding Hombre who was from Hustler both his breeding. And would have been on the world team if not for a technicality. 

Chico's dog has imports in the pedigree .. not US bred if the parents or grandparents ( dm/sire/grand dam/ grand sire ) are imports.  I don't know those bloodlines but looks like an import mix with a second generation.  There has been plenty of hocus pocus with people importing bred dogs and sending their dogs overseas for breeding.  If the USCA and the WDA are for the "German Shepherd Dog" after 35 years somebody should be able to breed one fit to win a national championship in their own organization's nationals and go to an international event representing the USA such as the  WUSV or the FCI IPO.  A US bred GSD means all US born and bred dogs in the first 3 generations on both sides of the pedigree and no imports.

A US bred GSD means all US born and bred dogs in the first 3 generations on both sides of the pedigree and no imports.

that is absolute nonsense. what org. in the U.S. has these rules.

All GSD orginated from Germany. The first clue is in the name of the dog.