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by Two Moons on 06 January 2010 - 18:01
The only one who can't express their opinion is the dog.
But hey, who cares.
But hey, who cares.
by Mystere on 06 January 2010 - 19:01
Brent,
I agree with you on that one. NEITHER dog can voice their opinion. As I said, I don't know that I would want such extraordinary and life-limiting measures for myself , so I would probably not choose that for my dog. But, I have not been confronted with that situation and I am entirely liable to be surprised, if it ever became more/other than hypothetical.
I
I agree with you on that one. NEITHER dog can voice their opinion. As I said, I don't know that I would want such extraordinary and life-limiting measures for myself , so I would probably not choose that for my dog. But, I have not been confronted with that situation and I am entirely liable to be surprised, if it ever became more/other than hypothetical.
I
by Don Dildo on 06 January 2010 - 20:01
"You came to this forum looking for help and support and received it. Now, this??? There has been NO "hate posts and hate mail" and for the life of me, I cannot see why you think there would be."
To be fair, I don't think any of us can know exactly what vonissk has been receiving in her in-box. And there are two posts today that are borderline insulting, if not exactly "hate posts" as most of us would define such.
That said, Mystere is right - why let the peanut gallery drive this topic underground? Withdrawing is not going to help Orso find a donor in accordance with his owner's wishes, and, to the extent that people here have tried to help and offer support and are now somewhat invested in the outcome, I think there is somewhat of an obligation to keep them informed.
To be fair, I don't think any of us can know exactly what vonissk has been receiving in her in-box. And there are two posts today that are borderline insulting, if not exactly "hate posts" as most of us would define such.
That said, Mystere is right - why let the peanut gallery drive this topic underground? Withdrawing is not going to help Orso find a donor in accordance with his owner's wishes, and, to the extent that people here have tried to help and offer support and are now somewhat invested in the outcome, I think there is somewhat of an obligation to keep them informed.
by vonissk on 06 January 2010 - 20:01
Let me say this and get it absolutely straight. In all the conversations Alex and I have had " the reward" as never been discussed. And if anyone thinks that I am " selling my dog" you absolutely know nothing about me. And if my main interest in my dog was to make money off him then I would put him up for public stud and the breed be damnedwho would care if I bred him to every back yard bitch that came along.
In fact the ONLY discussions about money we have had is him paying for the transport to NY and for the bloodwork. And believ e me if I had the money to do all that myself I would. So what if the dog only has a certain percent of life to live and it is a risk? If the bloodwork comes out as a match then at least I am giving him a chance.
I would hope that the people who have been so negative never run into a crisis, with dogs or otherwise, where they HAVE to have someone's help. But then again having to ask for help is a very humbling experience.
The other thing is as a Christian I can guarantee you that there is someone far greater than any top surgeon in the country in charge of what's going to happen on that operating table.
In fact the ONLY discussions about money we have had is him paying for the transport to NY and for the bloodwork. And believ e me if I had the money to do all that myself I would. So what if the dog only has a certain percent of life to live and it is a risk? If the bloodwork comes out as a match then at least I am giving him a chance.
I would hope that the people who have been so negative never run into a crisis, with dogs or otherwise, where they HAVE to have someone's help. But then again having to ask for help is a very humbling experience.
The other thing is as a Christian I can guarantee you that there is someone far greater than any top surgeon in the country in charge of what's going to happen on that operating table.
by susanandthek9s on 06 January 2010 - 20:01
"Put that poor dog down, and find some therapy for the owner."
That's pretty ugly and downright cruel. Orso's owner is heartbroken and doing everything he can to save his beloved dog. He doesn't need therapy. He doesn't need to kill Orso. He needs to find a match for Orso so the dog has a chance to live. It's fine to disagree with his decision. It's not fine to accuse the owner of needing therapy because you would make a different decision.
I've gotten two hate mails just for asking for help for Orso, one accusing me of being a mental case. The other was by someone in a rage because the forum was clogged up for about 40 minutes while I sent out individual posts seeking Orso's siblings and half-siblings. That hate mail gloated that people who knew about the whereabouts of some of Orso's siblings weren't going to tell me or Orso's owner because they were so angry that they couldn't use the forum for 40 minutes.
So I think poor Orso has gotten about all the help he can get here. There are other options, and we are working on them.
by susanandthek9s on 06 January 2010 - 20:01
Bravo, vonissk! You are a fine Christian lady. I wish there were more people like you in the world. It would be a much better place.
by buckeyefan gsd on 06 January 2010 - 21:01
what does this have to do with christianity?
people of every belief help others all of the time.
if you think god is in charge then why are you trying to override his decision?
i hope the dog makes it but i
would not risk my own dog,
but to each his own.
people of every belief help others all of the time.
if you think god is in charge then why are you trying to override his decision?
i hope the dog makes it but i
would not risk my own dog,
but to each his own.
by Mystere on 06 January 2010 - 22:01
Susan,
1. "Clogged for fourty minutes"? Nonsense. There was no time-frame at all. Yes, some were annoyed at a litany of "seeking" threads, because that "tactic" has been used in the past by a few of our more unbalanced members specifically to be a PITA, as it disrupts discussions of other threads when everyone has to "sift" through a glut of threads thrown up in a matter of minutes. Some of us, however, read the post in which a long-time member suggested that you do precisely that (bad advice, IMO). It was not the most productive move in part because so many on the forum had already gone to the pedigree section to start searching for siblings and tried to find out where they were. Some of us even tried to identify owners going trhough old show and trial catalogues, and calling other members of the schutzhund clubs in Washington State who had had Kraftwerk dogs in the clubs. You are not aware of it (and no reason why you should have been), but some of us are even located in Washington State.
Are there people who may have been annoyed enough to withhold information? No doubt...but, I doubt it was because they were annoyed at the multiple threads-- they would probably have withheld information in any event because there was nothing in it for them. That is assuming they actually had any such information: I never said that the entire forum was comprised completely of "good people" who all mean well.
We have a few nuts, nutcases, just plain bad nasty folks, and clear borderline personalities among us. There are some real doozies among us. In some cases, we even know their real names.
Don is correct: We all feel an emotional investment in this matter. So, please do keep us informed.
1. "Clogged for fourty minutes"? Nonsense. There was no time-frame at all. Yes, some were annoyed at a litany of "seeking" threads, because that "tactic" has been used in the past by a few of our more unbalanced members specifically to be a PITA, as it disrupts discussions of other threads when everyone has to "sift" through a glut of threads thrown up in a matter of minutes. Some of us, however, read the post in which a long-time member suggested that you do precisely that (bad advice, IMO). It was not the most productive move in part because so many on the forum had already gone to the pedigree section to start searching for siblings and tried to find out where they were. Some of us even tried to identify owners going trhough old show and trial catalogues, and calling other members of the schutzhund clubs in Washington State who had had Kraftwerk dogs in the clubs. You are not aware of it (and no reason why you should have been), but some of us are even located in Washington State.
Are there people who may have been annoyed enough to withhold information? No doubt...but, I doubt it was because they were annoyed at the multiple threads-- they would probably have withheld information in any event because there was nothing in it for them. That is assuming they actually had any such information: I never said that the entire forum was comprised completely of "good people" who all mean well.
We have a few nuts, nutcases, just plain bad nasty folks, and clear borderline personalities among us. There are some real doozies among us. In some cases, we even know their real names. Don is correct: We all feel an emotional investment in this matter. So, please do keep us informed.
by Two Moons on 06 January 2010 - 22:01
Anyone who loses a loved one, two legged or four, needs someone to talk to and grieve with, thats human nature.
Grief therapy.
There is nothing cruel in putting an animal down. It's only hard on the person who must decide.
I know what human transplant patients have to endure and I would not put an animal through that.
There are things money cannot buy.
Perhaps a Kidney is not one of them.
If someone wants to offer their dogs kidney thats their choice. But the $2,000.00 dollars makes it something else.
I understand the owners feelings, I've been there more than just once.
This is about the owner first of all, and the dog second in my humble opinion, followed closely buy money which has no place in this kind of thing at all.
The buying and selling of animal parts is already illegal for wild species.
People will do as they please, not my problem.
This just goes against my grain and I don't mind saying so.
Moons.
Grief therapy.
There is nothing cruel in putting an animal down. It's only hard on the person who must decide.
I know what human transplant patients have to endure and I would not put an animal through that.
There are things money cannot buy.
Perhaps a Kidney is not one of them.
If someone wants to offer their dogs kidney thats their choice. But the $2,000.00 dollars makes it something else.
I understand the owners feelings, I've been there more than just once.
This is about the owner first of all, and the dog second in my humble opinion, followed closely buy money which has no place in this kind of thing at all.
The buying and selling of animal parts is already illegal for wild species.
People will do as they please, not my problem.
This just goes against my grain and I don't mind saying so.
Moons.
by Don Dildo on 07 January 2010 - 00:01
$2,000 may - or may not - cover the costs of future kidney function monitoring for the donor dog. And that's something I'd certainly want to do if my dog were the donor.
So this is hardly some enormous cash windfall for the owner of a potential donor dog. Even in the absence of any testing, the amount at issue barely compensates for the aggravation the owner of the donor dog may go through during recovery, the risks inherent in any surgery, etc. etc. etc. It's unreasonable and unfair to view this in the same manner as some rich guy beating the system by paying beaucoup bucks for a new organ outside of the normal waiting list processes for organ transplant recipients.
So this is hardly some enormous cash windfall for the owner of a potential donor dog. Even in the absence of any testing, the amount at issue barely compensates for the aggravation the owner of the donor dog may go through during recovery, the risks inherent in any surgery, etc. etc. etc. It's unreasonable and unfair to view this in the same manner as some rich guy beating the system by paying beaucoup bucks for a new organ outside of the normal waiting list processes for organ transplant recipients.
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