ethical breeding - Page 6

Jeff,
Since you quoted me in one liners I will post one last time.

I live in the middle of nowhere, I don't like cities or people.  I don't particularly care for most people I meet.

I don't live by anyones standards other than my own, I just don't give a shit what others think of my life or how I live it.

I don't play games, I don't follow others.  I choose my own path.

Lets just say I'm a self made man and fully capable of making sound decissions without a guide book written by someone I probably don't like in the first place.  

There are a very few I truely respect or trust enough to except their council.   Since I don't know you, well your not on the list.

I don't compete for sport, never cared for the mindset that goes with it.   I know what it feels like to be the dog.

You were curious so I'll tell you, I'm unlike anyone you know I'm positive of that.  

I'm not slamming you either, I just have different views on what makes for a great dog. 

Raymond started this thread for bull shit reasons to begin with and I have said my piece.  Everyone made points and there is a variety of opinions to explore.

I'll move on.

Moons.

 

Jeff, I'm not interested in AI for a bitch that can't concieve via natural breeding, I wasn't even thinking about that. However buying a frozen pop or using my own dogs frozen pop. years down the road after they are long dead, may be of interest to me one day and I also have thought of buying and storing and using on my own bitches so I can keep them home rather than ship them off to be bred. Air transport can be a real "bitch" in itself, no pun intended. With heat and cold restrictions, blah blah blah, trying to get the dipstick on the other end to OK the pick up days/times, all I can say is headache. They have some nice dogs in Belgium I'd like to use and really don't want to send a dog overseas, if I don't have to for breeding purposes...and then if it doesn't take? Another try, another flight? Screw that. Can't afford to fly my dogs all over. I'd just like to keep my options open.

"Maybe breeding should never be done for the pet market unless they are little companion dogs and all others only breed for the original work they were developed for.  It would really comprimise the pet population."

DING DING DING, we have a  winner!

 Quote: CGC test, for a shepherd, I agree and the program is a joke with petsmart flunkies administering the test,  but it is a start.

It has been around for years, and I have seen the test and given the test. Really doesn't prove anything about the value of the dog, just that it can pass this test. I have trained extremely civil dogs to do this test. The test should be for breed value and not if your dog can behave. NOT a start, and a BIG joke. Need to start again. LOL

Quote: Breed clubs, lets look at those for sporting dogs like labs.  Most field dogs that earn titles have way too much drive for a family pet.  Same for a really good GSP.  Should all newfs be from stock that have worked in the water saving lives??  What about pugs, what the hell are they for anyhow???

God knows, and I could give a shit. LOL I am talking about the GSD, and the way that it is being bred in this country randomly at best, or JUST for Sch, which is a shame.

Everyone and their mother is breeding, and producing who knows what, and then has the balls to charge money for the pups. It gets old year after year watching the breeders scam people and make them believe that sport is BS and has a bad reputation, and they think that their dogs will do a mythical job without training. They put it in the dang envelope with your papers for fucks sake. We still do not have a breed club with a clue of what a GSD should be, so we blame the AKC.

What a different world we would have here if we had a breed warden, and penalties for breeding.

 

 

 I missed one. LOL

Quote:    If a member doesn't come to the club on a very regular basis they have rules where they can kick them out of the club.  

Consistency is the reason for this. I have had people bring puppies a few times, then not show for months, and then they think that the dog should magically be further along, as he is older. Nothing sucks more than trying to teach a dog something, and the owner just doesn't show up. Then when you do not spend the same amount of time with their dog, they get upset, as you are not taking them serious.

This is the kind of BS that the guy working the dog has to put up with. The dog is older, but still knows nothing, is big enough to make it really hard to teach the out without force, and is completely out of shape and has 9,000,000,000 bad habits because the owner thinks they can put foundation work on the dog, due to some mis information they read on the web.

What a joy it is to work with these "occasional" members of a club. Sure there are a lot of clubs that suck out there, I will not argue that, as it is true, but I think that you should see it from "MY" point of view, the guy that would be working your dog.

It is not so much fun when the owner waits until the dog weighs 90 lbs and can rip the tug out of your hands while you are trying to teach the out, and then shakes it and slaps the shit out of your face. It is also nice when they do not consider your hands off limits and bite the crap out of them, as they have not worked in 6 months and are all nutso to do so.

So yeah, the boot might just be appropriate.

Hello again,
ok, here I go,
how do you know what to breed to :
Because you studied pedigrees, that are only avaible, because of restricted breedings that are monitored and registered.
How do you know of certain traits in certain lines ?
Because you have a knowledge of these lines, provided to you by breedregistrys, that follow certain standarts and have certain standart test to prove these traits ....... meaning simply if these standarts would not exist to begin with, you would know jacks***t.
How does all this come together ?
Because a set standart in mantained over an extendet period of time, and the results are monitored and published. Breeding practise is monitored and regulated to achieve a certain outcome. Health issues are monitored on a wide basis, discussed and research is helped with funds.

I dont want to sound as an ass, but what many stated is such a narrow mindede balony, that makes me feel bad. I admire your efforts to help our beloved breed, but to think you help to follow your own "standart" is just insane. Well, I am not in your shoes to not be able to join a sheme, but i know for sure, for the love of our breed, I would not breed to my own standart. That for me, is breeding , because it can be done.

We have a saying here in Germany that would discribe it quite well : "Wasch mich, aber mach mich nicht nass ! " Here i s my translation, maybe someone has a better one : " Wash me, but dont get me wet !"
Regards Ulli

Your entitled to our opinion Ulli. Me, I feel breeding as the show liners do, is insane. Anyone can jump through hoops. My dog is quite capable of a Sch3. I bet I could get it on him in a year or less but I don't care to. It won't prove anything to me that I don't already know about my dog. If I breed, it will be not for the masses but for my own needs and the needs of a few good people around me and the departments in need of good dogs for the streets. V ratings and Koers are not needed, would be a waste of my time and money. I'd rather focus on what is more important and not jump through hoops that get me nowhere. If a dog passes the health criteria and can withstand the jumps and training without falling apart, that is all I need to know about his structure.

How do I know what to breed to? Research, talking to other breeders and friends who have seen or worked good dogs. Studying pedigrees helps. Talk to enough people and you will find out the traits in certain lines, own enough of those dogs and it will become evident. Not sure what that has to do with our different opinions? I feel my standard is "higher" than that of most that breed under the SV. 

I will not breed a dog simply for the fact that it has a title or because it is KKL1. Work will be looked at first, then health, then pedigree. If a dog barely passes because he has weaknesses in character, I don't even care to know more. I don't want to get caught up in the pedigree or his show raitings. Also I hardly think my own eyes can't tell me what is ugly. I don't want ugly dogs but what I am after, looks nothing like the VA dogs in the front of the line, so why bother going down that road? The dogs I like, wont place well but they will work circles around the VA dogs. Why would I waste my time showing, to be put behind these ugly dogs in my eyes, that can't work to save their life? That would be like banging my head on a wall and pissing my money away. To me, pretty is as pretty does.
 

 Quote:  Anyone can jump through hoops. My dog is quite capable of a Sch3. I bet I could get it on him in a year or less but I don't care to.

Not everyone can jump through the hoops. It is hard, and most people don't have the stones to do it, or we would have clubs around every corner.

If your dog is capable, then go and do it. I know you may not have "stones" but I would hope that you will not be satisfied with "my dog could have"

Just fuckin do it ! ! ! ! ! LOL

Uck Jeff, it's Sch. I'd have to put up with it, instead if enjoy myself. The guy and club I'd train with, if I had too do it is 3 hrs + away. My local clubs are too clicky. I'm done with Highschool and don't want people looking down on my dog, just because he didn't come from their breedings. Club fees, field fees, Sch USA membership, no...I'll keep my $, do another PSA trial or buy another puppy instead. Maybe if I meet the right guy and he does Sch, knows a good club I feel comfortable at, I "could" change my toon. Maybe when me and my dog are older...? Right now I am happy where I'm at and with what we are doing.

 I should make you go on workingdogforum.com and get you sorted out. 

I'm already there Jeffy.