Lets Breed Underage Dogs without Hip Certs and Titles - Page 5

Lets keep it on topic and not about any one breeder.  Lets discuss underage breeding without certs and titles.

GSD

  How quick many of you are to jump in to criticize without having the first bit of knowledge about the circumstances of this litter.  Others have been very quick to stick in the sword, without giving a moment's thought about how you would deal with a similar situation, if and when you are faced with it as a breeder.    For the record.:  I do not believe in breeding a dog...any dog...before the age of 2 years old.  Nor do I believe a dog should be bred before hips and elbows have been xrayed and rated, AND with the outcome being an acceptable breedable rating.  Anyone who knows me knows this to be true.  Because of these beliefs, not a single one of my own dogs have ever been bred before the age of 2,  and many are first bred well beyond that age...some even after they are 4 years of age and until they themselves have grown up mentally and physically.  I've never had an "accidental breeding" ever  with a dog in my care ;  WHY??  Because I believe these guidelines are very important, are in the best interest of the dog, and should be adhered to for their health and well being.

The litter above was originally not my litter...this  litter was unplanned, unintended, and yet sadly still occurred.   The parents of this litter are dogs both owned by a client of mine, and who had every intention of competing with these two dogs and working to get them titled.  Hip/elbow xrays were fully intending to be done prior to ever breeding this pair when they became of age.  Sadly..separation of the two owners which led to a divorce in process prevented her from being in sole control of her dogs at all times.  The husband had the dogs in his care, yet the dogs were not adequately supervised, and the dogs did what nature intended when dogs are in heat, and they mated.     Once the owner knew there was a possibility a mating had occurred, she immediately called me.  Needless to say, she was upset, to say the least.   She had no place to keep her dogs other than with her husband, let alone a place to keep the litter or raise up the pups.  So she did the right thing, AND what our contract calls for, which was that in the event she is unable to keep the dog, the dog must be returned back to me, the breeder.  So without question I took the dog back, and we waited to learn if there would be a confirmed pregnancy...There was...She is now my dog... and I will be responsible for all care and expenses of raising this litter.   

Within a few days of learning about this unplanned mating, I scheduled a date with my xray vet,  paid the vet expenses to get the male's hips and elbow xrays completed, and these films are currently in process of being sent to the SV for rating evaluation. All puppies from the litter will be fully guaranteed as well.  There is now a link on the male's page to view the hip and elbow xrays for those who care to look.   Both my vet and myself are in agreement and are confident that, based on the films we got on the male,  that his xrays will receive a rating of A1 hips, certainly not less than A2, with a rating of ED normal.  The owner, my client.. had every intention of doing the female's hips and elbows as well but unfortunately this was prevented in a timely manner due to dealing with a painful separation, money difficulties and "finding a place to live"!!.  Following being mated, the bitch was unable to have her hips/elbows xrayed for safety concerns of her unborn litter, but I will be having her xrayed at the proper timeline following weaning of her pups and after her body returns to "somewhat normal".  I have no doubt that she will pass...her littermate /sister has already been xrayed and received a Prelim of OFA Good ED normal.    Shit in...shit out????  I certainly don't think this pair of dogs NOR the litter deserves to be in that category because of age or lack of titles.    A bit of a rush to judgement there as well, since there have been many good dogs over the course of this breed's history that have come from untitled parents, and have gone on to produce good working dogs as well.   Both these parents have great potential to produce excellent working dogs, SCH dogs, SAR dogs, Police dogs, herding dogs...which was the intent when this pair was purchased by my client.

 That being said, having a title doesn't automatically mean a dog should be bred or allowed to produce offspring.  Some just aren't worthy or genetically healthy enough no matter how many titles they have.        

 Niesia...

  I don't know you.. but You were correct on one statement you made...
"I don't know the breeder or know nothing about their dogs (so I won't comment on them), " 

and so you should not have done so. 

 However on this statement  "but you would have to be blind to miss their billboards driving on a highway (I5)...It looks like a big commercial breeding facility"...  How ODD...I drive this stretch of the freeway very often, and I've never seen any such billboard...
But to clarify;  I don't have any billboards advertising my kennel or my dogs...I never have, and I never will.  

  Most of my new puppy owners come to me from referrals made by others who have my pups.   I do have a commercial kennel...because in the state and county that I live in, owning and/or housing over 6 dogs requires you to have a commercial kennel license...and because I raise pups, I also obey the law of my state and county and have a business license, and I file taxes on the income generated from any dogs sold through my business.  

 I know for a fact that many dog breeders can't truthfully say they abide by these same laws.  

I'd love to say I make a profit, but truth is any earnings made are put back into my facility and property, to make my dog's lives more safe, comfortable and enjoyable. 
My dogs are very much loved, they have a good life and are extremely healthy and well cared for.

Jean
  

Well said, Jean.  Your commitment is unquestionable to myself.  I'd buy a pup from you, but you couldn't give away one of milly's dogs to my care.  Not even the coat-tail-riding Bomber brother.

This thread started poorly and looks to be in free fall now. It is regretable that anything can be said about anyone or their dogs with no restraints.

Daryl, Milly doesn't sell her puppies to internet armchair experts who don't do anything with their dogs (but talk as if they do and have plenty of excuses why they don't actually accomplish anything) and who breed untitled dogs.  That describes you, as does the topic of this thread, in case you didn't understand.  So keep wishing you owned one of my dogs, especially from Bandit who is producing just fine without his brother's input LOLOLOLOL

pitiful jealousy from those who only wish.

molly

So, back to the topic, as I, Mudwick, Jaggirl and maybe someone else said, several times, IT WAS AN ACCIDENT, AND NOT EVEN ON HER PROPERTY! 

Instead of going back and saying "oops" and talking about a general topic, as GSD suggested, now it's a mud-wrestling pit. And people wonder why so many people leave this forum???

Health Certs & Joints Certified by the correct authorities should be done on all Breeding Stock, No exemptions on that.
Anyone breeding these dogs and not doing these basic things is to me a Back Yard Breeder and i see it no other way.
They are not interested at all about the breeds welfare in the long term. all that sort of breeder is interested in is the MONEY they make, for the dogs are  but a commodity to them not one other thing 
Steve1

Jealous, definitely not!!  But you're right, Bandit can't be blamed for who his owner is.