What are my girls physical flaws and strengths - Page 5

 No it's about what I've seen with my own eyes.  One good example was  the UScA  SS in San Jose.  Many of the same dogs you find at NASS.   I also love it when showline breeders display what they think are video examples of how great their prize "V" or "VA" dogs work.  Dogs looking around desperately for their handler and standing back from the helper, practically begging the helper not to make them re-engage during the hold & bark.   Of course, this is not the case with all the dogs, but even the best don't have what it takes to be a serious contender in even a regional event. 

My point is, you do not have the slightest idea about what a working line dog is meant to do, or how they are judged, and you have no appreciation for them.  The original poster has a working line dog.  For you to say the dog shouldn't be bred because it's not a showline VA dog is ludicrous.  Thank god for working line GSDs.  If the day ever comes when our high drive, work loving dogs are replaced by show lines, I'll head right over to Dutchies.

There is room at the table for both.  I have friends who breed very nice show line dogs.  They are not so arrogant or stupid to think their dogs are superior to working lines,  they recognize they are just different.

Well, you really stuck your foot in it when you said:

 " I'll start investing in sable dogs when they bring as good a return on investment as do black and reds." 

 Wow, talk about what you are REALLY all about.  It all boils down to cold hard cash as far as you are concerned.  So you think any of us really care about winning ribbons for the prettiest dog?  No, we are performance oriented, not beauty pagent oriented.

LOL I'm glad my show/working comment distracted you long enough to tell us like it really is. May I ask, is this you?

http://www.phoenixgsd.org/litter.html

I have not seen such ego in some time.(since I dated a cop)

 busted again, Frank and by poor frustrated 4pack. Imagine that.  How are things on the Island?

This thread is cracking me up!

Thanks for the entertainment!

Theresa

I want to be clear about something.  I have great respect for many show line breeders.  Just off the top of my head  a few that frequent this board are Silbersee,  KCzaja, and now Shelley Strohl who I believe just recently tossed her hat in the show line arena.  There are a lot more, these are just a few who popped into my head when I was thinking of my perhaps too strong wording in my previous posts on this thread.

No, size DOESN'T matter.  These are dogs, not commodities we are talking about.  The "pinnacle" as you call it, isn't necessarily the one with the most ribbons or the most dogs.  It isn't the breeder who gets the most money for the pups, considering most pups are primarily bought by those looking for family pets, all that takes is a slick sales presentation.

For me, the best breeder is the one who is honest and fair and has a stellar reputation amongst his and her peers.  One who understands ALL aspects of the breed and who keeps an open mind.  One who doesn't think he has all the answers and who's ego is not so gigantic he is kennel blind.

Sue and 4pack, please don't hate me because Blitz is a beautiful black and red. He's also cowhocked,east and west, and bites people who he doesn't like  . However, he does not have a roachy topline.

I have personally entered (had to pay for them) and handled 5 of my dogs to their KK1 for life

All this says is that someone you payed trained your dog and you got to show the final result!

This is what i think of your VA dog http://www.fredlanting.org/2008/06/will-the-true-working-dog-disappear-part-2-the-gap-widens/

this part in particuler

"Now, here’s the rub. The judge who decides which dogs get the VA and high-V placings (and therefore will contribute most to the Hochzuchtlinie gene pool) does not get to see the actual performance in the courage test. In fact, he doesn’t even get a report on how well or how marginally the Ausgeprägt dogs really did. Many do not deserve a pronounced rating, although the 2006 courage test judge for males did a tougher, better job than average. So, how can the breed judge know what the character, as tested in the qualifying ring, is really like? He cannot. About the only thing he can use as a tiny part of his judgment, is the knowledge of whether the dog passed in the previous year.

So your response to the German Breed Warden attempting to address the issue of poor work in the show lines is "So What"?  Well, I guess all I can say is at least it is crystal clear to everyone who has read this thread exactly where you stand when it comes to the work.  Maybe you should consider going back to your beloved american line shepherds.  They don't need to worry about such pesky problems like character and working ability.

If you are  Phoenix Shepherds, I take issue with your statements on your home page  regarding how OFA grades compare with SV grades.  You state OFA compares them as follows: (http://www.phoenixgsd.org/index.shtml)

OFA                                  SV

Good                                "a" Fast Normal

Fair                                   Noch Zugelassen

When in fact, OFA clearly states the comparison is:

OFA                                     SV

E, G, F                                Normal

Borderline                         Fast Normal   

MODERATE                      Noch Zugelassen

While we all know there is some overlap, especially between borderline and fair (Normal and Fast Normal), there is little doubt NZ hips are dysplastic and to suggest otherwise is misleading in my opinion.

I like a dog: That can work for hours, has good nerves, good drive and good bitework.

I dislike a dog: who can only do one job and that is run around in circles and look good.

Smartguy i really like your female! She looks like a perfet companion. I bet you two have a lot of fun when your together and believe thats what counts. I happen to own a working dog that has a showline apperance. Shes a showline gsd but has endless stamina, nerves of steel, good defense, prey and fight drive. She doesnt have an exceptional conformation. But i love her and she loves me and i would never trade her for anything even i was offered Zamp in exchange for her.

Heres my girl, i know she doesnt have a very good conformation but i can call her a very good working dog. I bet the father of this breed is looking down upon us and sying,"what the hell have you guys done to my breed!"  My next dog will be a working dog! Smartguy theres no need for u to be upset! I bet your girl can beat all of paranshep's dogs in every way without breaking a sweat! Paranshep's dogs might look better!