Czech GSD's with bad hips - Page 41

But are you also telling me that there are no unofficial x rays done or preliminary x rays done or diagnostic hip  x rays done? 

This was exactly what I was meaning to ask Johan77.  Clearly, the above does not sound plausible, that the only x-rays taken are those that are sent into the kennel club for analysis.  If there are cases that are suspect when a "diagnostic" x-ray is taken, clearly, they are not going to retake it and send it to the swedish board for HD analysis.  That in turn will skew the overall numbers, purely from an HD standpoint.

As soon as you ask the vet to do the x ray for OFA that starts the process of protocol. The X rays are then confidential between the vet and OFA until you give permission to release the outcome. If the X Rays are undesirable you don't have to release them but they are still certified to your dog and documented.
 
            

But many many people in the US do not commit to sending the X-rays into OFA until after they have seen that they are likely to pass or at least borderline. People with moderate, severe, or femurs not even in socket, often do not bother to send in the results. This certainly skews the overall percentage of the breed.

If one can use OFA sequential numbers, it looks like about 87,500 GSD's have been issued OFA numbers. 106 GSD's have been evaluated as severe, 432 as moderate.

If one can use OFA sequential numbers, it looks like about 87,500 GSD's have been issued OFA numbers. 106 GSD's have been evaluated as severe, 432 as moderate.

My point exactly! Does anybody actually  think that if you would select randomly and blindly  87 500  ( eighty seven thousands five hundred!!!)GS dogs then from those only 106 were dysplastic severely  and only 432 with moderate HD?!
If you believe that then I have have some ocean front  property here in Arizona desert to sell you. 
Those numbers are off , way off,  because people do not send bad hips to OFA for evaluation. Thus percentages of HD and improvements numbers  and percentages of HD in GSD provided by OFA are just as way off too.  Ofa calims 19% of GSDwhich they evaluated  have some form of HD. I'd say that it is more then 2 x - 3x as much in real world.  
http://www.offa.org/stats_hip.html
Hans

At least there's 87and a half thousand GSDs that don't have HD ;-)

Prager, who is disagreeing with you? You don't need to always say....... ah ha....see I told you so.  Most here get it - honestly.

I posted those results to demonstrate how few xrays  are submitted to OFA that don't pass. OFA stats are skewed if taken literally; no one really knows how much HD is produced in ANY breed. OFA only knows what they see; they don't claim that their stats reflect anything other than the xrays they have evaulated. . 539 dogs out of about 87,500 is well under .10 of 1 percent. 

IMO OFA is not all bad. I've found their vertical pedigrees to be very useful as well as their descriptions of disease and conditions I never knew about. OFA is optional, use them, don't use them. I have asked this a milloin times and still no answer - what is a good alternative for GSD breeders in the US who don't want to use OFA.

Hans, the dog must be at least 12 month for GSDs to be official registred, you can do preliminary x-rays from 6 months if you suspect something is wrong, but these preliminary x-.rays are also recorded in the kennel clubs database and is part of the statistic I referd to. If you have your dog x-rayed for HD it´s not like OFA where you can choose to not send a bad x-ray for official reading, even if you can you don´t get any money from the insurance if the dog is not officially evaluated. I suppose most dogs that are x-rayed here is because the breeder or owner want to know the HD-gradings and not for problems before the age when most dogs are x-rayed, around 18 months, I´m not 100% sure if a dog that is showing problem  and are x-rayed for that reason must have it´s plate send to the readers at the kennel club if they think the problem is caused by HD, but I think so becasue the insurance issue and most veterinarys are not educated for evaluating x-rays for HD.

Anyway, if 60% of the GSD breed is evaluated here each year I guess that is a quite large sample and gives a quite true picture of the amount of HD, I´m not sure x-raying 100% would change so much, I mean those 60% that are evaluated are a blend of most lines that are present in the country I suppose, and those 40% that are not x-rayed don´t all have HD I suppose;) Due to the fact german dogs have much influence in basically all countries I suppose the population in sweden also reflects the amount of HD in germany, if 50-60% of the breedingdog used is from german dogs I guess the population here as a whole may be a bit better than germany regarding HD but no drastic difference due to influnce of breedingchoices in germany. Individual breeders can of course be both much better or worse than the average for the whole breed.

Insurance?
Swedish system sounds pretty good. 

Well, thanks to most who have put in a great deal of time and effort on this worrying matter - HD in the German Shepherd Dogs...

Hans, you have over and over avoided answering my question because you know that you will be implicating both you and your partner...

I sincerely believe that both you and Jiri could have done more to eliminate HD in your breeding programs...

I mean, to stick to Grim z PS on almost all your breeding stock even though you are fully aware of the HD problems...
The amazing thing is that you have breeding stock linebred on Grim...
Para, linebred 3-3 on Grim and then put to Urf who is noch zugelassen...
You don't need a rocket scientist to tell you that this breeding is going to be far too risky i.t.o. Hip Health...
Yes, there will always be an element of risk but going to extremes and expecting good results...
To Gustav and one or 2 fellow enthusiasts, this particular Forum is about Hip Health so let's leave the working abilities, etc, etc, out of this please...

I have done some research on Furo Kamos and please take note that linebreeding on him is only asking for problems...
Young Chrissy's dog (Kaiser) is only 1 heartsore and expensive example...there are many more out there...

I trust you and Jiri will take the positives from this Forum and make a couple of adjustments in your breeding program...

To all breeders: yes the stats are out there, some say 40%, others 22%..................................
The question to you is: WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO IMPROVE THE STATS IN YOUR OWN BREEDING PROGRAM...

If every breeder aims to improve then the overall stats will most definately improve...
If the bigger breeders that breed many litters a year aim to improve, the overall stats will in a shorter space of time, most definately improve...