Les, This GSD is AKC Registered white how would you define this dogs color?

White Stone's Afro Man

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1295369-white-stones-afro-man

Heritage

 

 

 

 

@Heritage, don't know when Les will re-appear to answer that one, but in the meantime, I should tell you there is a UK 'tradition' of naming all those mucky-coloured, tan or yellow breakthrough 'white' coats as:
"Champagne". Not sure where it originated, or whether the French approve (!), but I think the term crossed the Pond at some point as I have seen mention of this by other, US &/or Canadian, posters from time to time.

"Hundmutter" don't know when Les will re-appear to answer that one, but in the meantime, I should tell you there is a UK 'tradition' of naming all those mucky-coloured, tan or yellow breakthrough 'white' coats as: "Champagne". Not sure where it originated, or whether the French approve (!), but I think the term crossed the Pond at some point as I have seen mention of this by other, US &/or Canadian, posters from time to time.

Thank you for your response.  Yes, I have heard of those references of the colors you posted.

Knowing breeders of both White Shepherds and white GSDs was told the various opinions and facts on them.

Not one of those members that posts very often on the PDB. I spend my time working on Pedigrees and responding to members that need help. 

Heritage

Hello. I'm back. Sorry for the errors, Les. I'm still learning.

GSDHeritage: "Not one of those members that posts very often on the PDB."

Yes, at least some of us could guess that from the content of your first post in this thread. Sadly, many newcomers who would venture to this thread even in distant future, will tend to believe what was written there, only because this was coming from an ADMIN. That's why it becomes more important to challenge that post. I do hope it's allowed to do so, because here it is the Admin who has decided to actively participate in a conversation in "100%" support of a misinformation provided by another poster.

GSDHeritage: "Joan, you are 100% right as one parent does need to be a sable to produce a sable pup."

There is nothing wrong in that statement. At least one of the parent DOES need to be "genotypically" a Sable to produce a Sable pup. But, were we discussing genotype at that point?

Ok, a phenotypically white GSD CAN produce a phenotypically Sable puppy even when mated with a phenotypically both non-sable & non-white GSD if the phenotypically white GSD is genotypically a ”White Sable" (courtesy Les). AND, two white GSDs, "true white" or not, would NEVER produce anything other than whites.

I hope I wouldn't need to provide punett squares to prove that, because my cellphone's software doesn't allow me to work with tables.

GSDHeritage: "If you look carefully at some GSDs down as white you will see some have a yellow tint or those markings."

The e^e^ pairing causes different shades of red in Pomeranians, and different shades of yellow in Labrador Retrievers. So it shouldn't be too surprising if there are different shades in white GSDs also.

GSDHeritage: "What I understand from the White Shepherd breeders that only bred white dogs for generations that the dogs with color in the background will produce dogs of the various colors and the off-white color. Sometimes when they DNA a white dog with the yellow tint this is proven. They can look white but actually be masking a different color."

Of course they are masking a different colour/pattern. That's what the e^e^ pairing does, not allowing, sometimes NOT 100% successfully, the other colours and patterns to express themselves.

I hope those learned White shepherd breeders didn't claim that they DNAed a "true white" and found out that the A locus is drawing blanks!!!

GSDHeritage: "Not one of those members that posts very often on the PDB."

Swarnendu

Yes, at least some of us could guess that from the content of your first post in this thread. Sadly, many newcomers who would venture to this thread even in distant future, will tend to believe what was written there, only because this was coming from an ADMIN. That's why it becomes more important to challenge that post. I do hope it's allowed to do so, because here it is the Admin who has decided to actively participate in a conversation in "100%" support of a misinformation provided by another poster.

I might not post very often on the PDB but do belong to many forums where I post.  Knowing White Shepherd breeders only breeding White Shepherds for 40 or more years before FCI accepted them their dogs looked pure white. White is a masking color testing proves that and never mentioned it was not. I posted a website for members to decide for themselves and no a member does not believe everything a Admin posts why would they.  I see several rude posts that other Admins remove so yes this the main reason I do not post here.

Here are couple more websites

VetGen DNA CHROMAGENE Coat Color Testing

https://www.vetgen.com/canine-coat-color.html

Canine Coat and Nose Color Testing

http://www.healthgene.com/canine-dna-testing/color-testing/?tid=4&btid=66

 

 

Thanks Admin, for the links..

Juel was definitely a sable as was her sire, Clovis vom Sahiela. (I was the breeder of Clovis.) Clovis was what I call a patterned sable, a sable that has a definite saddle and looks almost black and tan in some of his pictures.

A dog whose parents were both white, would also have to be white because white is recessive to the other colors and patterns. However, whites who are genetic reds, often show much red bleedthrough, sometimes so much that the dog can appear to be red.

White Stone's Afro Man http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1295369-white-stones-afro-man
is typical of a white that is a genetic red.

Clarification, when I say a dog is a red, I'm talking about the red/tan/cream/silver base (ground) color. The black is actually the marking color, laid in a pattern over the ground color. A white is genetically a sable, black & tan/red/cream/silver, or a solid black dog. The white gene acts as if you dropped a white sheet over a colored GSD, hiding the genetic colors and pattern from view.