passive decoy engagement test - Page 4

vK4, would suggest you post your dog working the man in the muzzle and doing leg bites on a hidden sleeve, then we can compare.

When can I expect to see them?

As it stands you have posted a vid, self pro claimed to be passing a test, which is so contrived it beggars belief.

You didn't even command the dog to attack, which is pretty fundamental in a passive attack.
No wonder others were so confused. (the icing on the cake for contrivness/routine lol)

Look forward to seeing vids of your dog which are not 100% equipment focused.

Regards
Gee

VK4, perhaps you should watch the second vid of two I sent you, it clearly shows civil aggression in the muzzle over distance and obstacle, to a decoy wearing no equipment. Important because the dog is defo focused on the man and not the sleeve/suit.

Re your last claim re noises are irrelevant, I can assure you most dogs do not have the back bone to ignore such distractions. (what a wonderful state of affairs that would be in the world of GSD if that were true)

Darkvakia Boris again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfW62lxUdVk

We would all very much appreciate you showing similar, since you declare noise is relevant?

(i can assure you, a dog of that caliber is as rare as hens teeth)

Regards
Gee

correction, noises/motion is irrelevent to MY dog other than to kick him into prey drive, personally i find them distracting and always use as little motion and noise to stimulate the dog as possible.

 

you really believe a hidden sleeve is more real than an external sleeve, you really believe that is the deal breaker?

muzzle for sure is a step up but it is no certainty.

making clips of my dog posted reacting to a decoy with no gear already been done, no big deal at all, so trivial I am not going to waste bandwidth making a clip for one person's request.
done the same thing with my mutt, no problem, find them yrself on my channel if you are that interested.

how would you know there was no command, I was there I think I would know.
 

Hidden sleeve is defo head and shoulders up from bulky obvious equipment, re proofing a dog.

But nowt beats the muzzle, because the dog is in total control in the sense that he chooses the body part.

The proof of the pudding as they say - quite happy to look up your vids, what is your yourtube channel?

Regards
Gee

Looked at your first vid again and came across about four others.

Nothing wrong with them, basic beginners stuff. (nothing wrong with that, we all have to start some where)

Common denominators / Observations re your vids:
Same bite suit.
Same decoy.
Same location.
Same routine.
Same spooky Lion like sound affects, to make your dog appear more formidable lol.

Absolutely night and day from what I have shown you, your dog is under zero pressure and triggered to engage by the huge bite suit and familiar surroundings - it's all a game of tug o war to him mate. (if you carry on training like that, you better hope the burglar is wearing that very bite suit)

Also to declare noise/distraction to be irrelevant, is hilarious.

Any competent trainer will build, gunfire/distraction into there training, but you know best.
Which is why you will probably find your dog hiding in the Melbourne hills if/when the shit hits the fan.
.
Regards
Gee

"Same bite suit. -yes, how many do you own?

Same decoy - not quiet

Same location. - no

Same routine. - no

Same spooky Lion like sound affects, to make your dog appear more formidable lol. - no

Yup, I'm glad Blitz was around to say that for / about me;   not able to spend

so much time @ my keyboard lately (off large chunks of days visiting my sick

brother).

But since I am now back, for this evening,  I need to add this :

My experience lies not in getting dogs trained to bite - for either Sport OR Security

Work - but in getting them sufficiently obedient and discerning so that they do NOT

bite, but can still present an appearence of being READY to bite, and of defending

the Property fences,  while remaining quite safe around a varied multiplicity of

visitors, including children and the old/infirm.  Many of whom, incidentally, were not

very keen on dogs, being mostly Moslems !  But then, so was my Boss who owned

the dogs, and the property they guarded.

To that end, and just because I have always been a Sheperdite, a fan of the breed, I

am always curious about methods, have attended my share of Working Displays and

Sport Training Clubs, read the Barwig book on Schutzhund (and some by other authors)

and generally taken an interest in methods and exercises used, compared results, and

discussed issues at some length with serving Police handlers, and private Security

employees.  Seeking not to duplicate those trained dogs, but to know the pitfalls to

avoid, in order to get what we particularly required from the Farm's dogs. 

 

Now, try to take a look inside D's head (or the heads of Gee's dogs):

From the dogs POV,  being taken into a situation where there is a decoy they

may already know, who is dressed up in a full-body bite suit (reeking of earlier

encounters), at a time and / or venue they have been Trained before,  what

part of being allowed to go for the decoy says to the dog "This is a test of what

you will do;  it definitely is not you being trained to do it."  ???

 

I realise you have already illustrated D's ability to interact with people other than

yourself in a neutral manner;  the issue is whether you could now test and get the

same reaction from him once you have done exercises like this one, where you have

petted and praised the dog as you took him away again;  but did not show that

he would still "out" as PART of the exercise.

@ hund - huh??

how do these things get so complicated for some, simple as this;

question - will the dog engage a passive decoy in a bite suit or does the dog need a disco-boogie-whip-cracking-jumping-jack to trigger on?

//test//

           /have decoy in strange location stand as passively as possible

          /give the dog a command

          /let dog go

          /see what happens

//test over//

that's it, end of story.

corollary: was it a perfectly conceived and executed test that reveals the mind and soul of the dog as a culmination of best training effort...NO
did I know a little something about my dog that I didn't know before the test, do I have some information to progress further training on - YES

sorry it is not more mysterious but that's it.



 

Gee,
Watched the video of your boy doing bitework with the fire extinguisher. Looked like a drivey dog, but clearly was in prey despite the "hidden" equipment. Dog seemed stressed with the extinguisher, even outed from the pressure of it. Shallow bite, growly. I would suggest backing up on the distractions.