This is a placeholder text
Group text
by Diane Jessup on 10 August 2010 - 02:08
I hope you don't go either. I really am disappointed when people are unwilling to discuss "touchy" subjects, for I think if they can be kept at an adult level (difficult here, with some of the more persistant trolls) I think people can LEARN. From what I have read I have a certain perception of why people (in many different breeds) deviate from the standard. Perhaps I'm wrong! I'll never know if people just throw their hands in the air and get defensive. Lord knows I've had people hysterical over my culling, etc, and I've never run away or gotten defensive... I just state my thoughts on it and let the chips fall where they may.
For instance: now I;ve heard that Shiloh breeders want the dog to be more "old fashioned". I think that's interesting because I *thought* the older dogs (say, prewar, wartime) were quite slender. Certainly not 100 pounds. Perhaps I'm wrong.
I have heard a *little* about how some of the breeds used to produce the GSD were large, more "stock guardian" than herding type dogs, heavily coated. I think this was before the 1900s. I'd love to learn more about that. That seems to be a bit more like what a Shiloh would be like.
You GSD people are lucky - you have a core of people breeding "real deal" dogs. As the APBT nears the end of its 30th year as a fad breed, there are so few remnents left for serious breeders to pick up and work with. The so called "American bully" is now what a whole generation of Americans think a "pit bull" is. That is hard on a breed.
Anyway, I find this stuff interesting to discuss. I'm sorry it touched raw nerves for anyone. Over and out.
For instance: now I;ve heard that Shiloh breeders want the dog to be more "old fashioned". I think that's interesting because I *thought* the older dogs (say, prewar, wartime) were quite slender. Certainly not 100 pounds. Perhaps I'm wrong.
I have heard a *little* about how some of the breeds used to produce the GSD were large, more "stock guardian" than herding type dogs, heavily coated. I think this was before the 1900s. I'd love to learn more about that. That seems to be a bit more like what a Shiloh would be like.
You GSD people are lucky - you have a core of people breeding "real deal" dogs. As the APBT nears the end of its 30th year as a fad breed, there are so few remnents left for serious breeders to pick up and work with. The so called "American bully" is now what a whole generation of Americans think a "pit bull" is. That is hard on a breed.
Anyway, I find this stuff interesting to discuss. I'm sorry it touched raw nerves for anyone. Over and out.
by Myracle on 10 August 2010 - 02:08
Oddly, my WL GSD never was much of a mouther.
Then again, I got her at 14 weeks instead of 8, so its very likely her litter mates had already taught her bite inhibition.
My first dog, a big male boxer, was mouthy as heck, though.
Would a Shiloh that titled in Schutzhund be considered outside the breed standard?
Then again, I got her at 14 weeks instead of 8, so its very likely her litter mates had already taught her bite inhibition.
My first dog, a big male boxer, was mouthy as heck, though.
Would a Shiloh that titled in Schutzhund be considered outside the breed standard?
by VonIsengard on 10 August 2010 - 03:08
I have nothing against Shilohs. When people ask me where they can get an oversize, laidback, really mellow GSD, I tell them those traits should not exist in the GSD, any to wary of any breeder who does this on purpose. I then suggest they read up on Shilohs, they might find it a more suitable dog for them. Its a perfect solution in many cases and keeps these types of dogs out of the GSD gene pool. Its win/win.
My only beef with Shiloh breeders is when they claim Shilohs to be "old style" GSDs when GSD were never meant to be 130 pound coach potatoes at any time in the breed history. If Shiloh fanciers want GSD fanciers to respect their standard, they can respect ours as well.
On the flip side, Sunsilver, you make it sound like puppies can only be mannerly and quiet or raging beasts from hell with absolutely no personality type in between. This is not so.
My only beef with Shiloh breeders is when they claim Shilohs to be "old style" GSDs when GSD were never meant to be 130 pound coach potatoes at any time in the breed history. If Shiloh fanciers want GSD fanciers to respect their standard, they can respect ours as well.
On the flip side, Sunsilver, you make it sound like puppies can only be mannerly and quiet or raging beasts from hell with absolutely no personality type in between. This is not so.
by sueincc on 10 August 2010 - 03:08
I ADORE boxers. Some of my most favorite dogs of all time have been boxers. They have such great senses of humor. I have a friend named Kevin who has boxers, he's a breeder/importer of working line boxers and he just put a schH1 on his big male. Another friend of mine named John is a helper and also into boxers. He has a boxer he titled to schHIII, really nice dogs.
by Sunsilver on 10 August 2010 - 04:08
The old GSD was not oversize. HOWEVER the dogs Tina wanted to re-create were her grandmother's dogs, from Poland, and they WERE oversized. She remembers them as being much bigger than the neighbour's rottweiler.
No one cared much about standards and papers in the post-war period, which is when Tina got to know these dogs.
And just to clarify, none of the grandmother's dogs came to North America. Tina merely tried to re-create the appearance of the dogs she remembered.
And I know that not all WL dogs are mouthy. I own one*, and he is the gentlest of my three dogs when taking a treat from my hand. But of course everyone seems to be breeding for extremes these days, and many of the ads you see for WL dogs emphasize how willing the puppies are to bite. If you deliberately breed for dogs like that, well, guess what? You're going to get 'em!
(*He has no pedigree, but he definitely LOOKS like a working line GSD.)
No one cared much about standards and papers in the post-war period, which is when Tina got to know these dogs.
And just to clarify, none of the grandmother's dogs came to North America. Tina merely tried to re-create the appearance of the dogs she remembered.
And I know that not all WL dogs are mouthy. I own one*, and he is the gentlest of my three dogs when taking a treat from my hand. But of course everyone seems to be breeding for extremes these days, and many of the ads you see for WL dogs emphasize how willing the puppies are to bite. If you deliberately breed for dogs like that, well, guess what? You're going to get 'em!
(*He has no pedigree, but he definitely LOOKS like a working line GSD.)
by CopDogs on 11 August 2010 - 01:08
Sunsilver you just do not get It. People on here like you, you appear to be a very nice person. Its Shiloh and Tina that people do not care for. Her history with her crossbred dogs and passing them of as a German Shepherd of years gone by and her past from NY and all the problems she caused that is what b others people. I do not think anyone has really say anything against you
by Myracle on 11 August 2010 - 01:08
Would a Shiloh that titled in Schutzhund be considered outside the breed standard?
by Sunsilver on 11 August 2010 - 03:08
No, it would not. I know of several people who are training in schutzhund, but do not know of any Shilohs that are titled. It would not surprise me to find one that was, though. The last outcross Tina did was to a working line longcoat GSD.
Before the split from the GSD, many were titled. If you visit Tina's website and look at some of the old pictures, you will see Tina working her dogs in protection training.
by Myracle on 11 August 2010 - 03:08
My club in the past has titled Shilohs. I was just curious if that was within, or outside of, the standard for the breed.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
