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by Liesjers on 10 June 2010 - 20:06

by miles on 10 June 2010 - 20:06
Sorry, this has nothing to do with the Sieger Show anymore but I think we all agree that the SS was a joke, heck USA couldn't even spell Schutzhund right on the cover of their own magazine. I will let my membership expire and switch to the WDA after what I saw all weekend at the SS
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 20:06
Hello,
I had said that I would return to discuss VA1 Titan and the things that have been written on this posting.
First off, I would like to say that there are a number of people that I know that have been on this thread that
personally know Titan, they have known him for a very long time and they know for a fact that Titan is not
dog aggressive, they also know what a sweet, affectionate dog he is with everyone he meets. Why the people that are on this thread that have known him most of his life do not bother to share this information in Titan's defense is only proof to me that the intentions of these webboards is to backstab and try to defame other people's hard work and dogs in an attempt to make themselves feel better.. it is, to me, a sad state of affairs and I have never taken part in this type of behavior toward people and find it interesting that people take such interest and often times, joy, in trying to hurt others and make them feel bad.
Titan is a super loving male and is a great example of how a shepherd should be at home and on the schutzhund field.
Titan has been raised since puppyhood in the home with a small dog and also very young children and he
was a sweetheart with all. As an adult, since he was titled, he lives in the home with my trainer, Ed Calderon who has three young children and multiple dogs. Titan hangs out with all his dogs, plays with them, and he trains and conditions his dogs each day together for miles.... Titan is great with other dogs. He is even great with baby puppies too!
With that being said, I will call upon those of you out there that participate in dogs sport and are breeders that know very clearly, that just because a male is good with all other dogs, does NOT mean that he will be friendly with another stud dog.
In MOST cases, active, breeding stud dogs are kept well away from one another at all times. It is very common and very much understood that stud males normally do not tolerate the presense of one another and are not turned out to play with one another and are, under most all circumstances kept far away from one another when possible. Stud males treat each other differently then they treat other females and young dogs. Most (not all), but most people who have active breeding males would never expect nor put their stud male next to another stud male.. This is normal..and it is just how it is.
Anyone honest person that has shown their dogs in the working male classes over the years will clearly admit when the males are all together in the ring that it is not uncommon for them to growl at one another and for any given male to try to start trouble with another. Anytime you get that many breeding males together.. it is always possible for one or two of them to bark or growl, etc. at one another... the dogs are trained and are normally corrected and either move away from one another or they are moving in the ring and showing and are kept busy doing what they have been trained to do in the ring.
Titan has been shown many, many times in his show career and has never had any problems showing with any other males. He never has gone after any other males in the show ring, nor off of the show field. On Sunday, when the dogs were beginning the working class males and Titan was pulled out in 1st place... the older, 5-6 year old male that was pulled out in 2nd place was behind Titan and I believe he either sniffed Titan's hocks or nipped at Titan's hocks.. I could not see from where I was standing.. I only saw the other male with his head stretched out toward Titan's hocks... Titan turned around and barked at him a couple of times.. it wasn't a big dea

by miles on 10 June 2010 - 20:06
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 20:06
It wasn't a big deal.. The 2nd place male didn't even respond to Titan barking at him and Titan's handler just turned him around and they all began moving around the ring... there was no incident, there was no drama. That was how the entire working class went.. Titan moved and gaited and did what he was supposed to do... The judge and the ring steward directed the class as to when to move, when to stop, when to go fast, when to go slow, etc.. Titan went with power and strength and moved perfectly at every speed of movement. The comment earlier, about Titan being tired? That is a perfect example of just "anything" anyone will say to have something to say... Titan was prepared for this even for months like an olympic athlete. His trainer, Ed Calderon, had him prepared and in supreme physical condition. He had prepared with endless miles of biking and strength building conditioning, his muscles were primed and he was conditioned and prepared to last two hours in the ring if need be. The working male class did not last nearly so long.. and because the class was split into two parts, the males had 1/2 of the time inside the ring while the other 1/2 of the time resting outside while the other 1/2 of the class was being judged. Titan was NOT tired AT ALL when the class was over.. and could have done the entire class all over again. He barely drank any water during the class even. For me, the mistake I made was of no fault of Titan's. When the working class was over... I needed to decide which 5 dogs I was going to use in my kennel group. For those of you who do not know how the kennel group is put together, it is a presentation of 5 dogs from my kennel.. combination can be any combination of males and females. There are certain criteria that are judged on in the kennel group judging... basicly speaking.. it is a presentation of 5 dogs from one kennel that are judged on diffiuclty, quality, and unifomity. The difficulty comes in where you are presenting 5 dogs that are to be very uniform in their type.. while these dogs are not littermates... they should look so uniform to one another .. that hey almost "look" to be littermates.
To present the highest level of difficulty.. the 5 dogs presented would be from 5 different mothers and also 5 different fathers, 5 diffrent litters. It is also possible to present a less difficult combination with 4 mothers or 4 fathers, but of course, it is not as difficult to have a uniform type seen when the dogs have the same father... or if they come from the same mother.. so the higher the level of difficulty, the more points.. with 5-5 being the most difficult combination.
The quality of the dogs is also a factor... so having dogs presented in the working classes is more difficult than to have a dog that was in the puppy class or the 12 -18 class for example. VA And V ratings are worth more than SG, G and VP ratings... So, to have 5 dogs represented in the kennel group from 5 different mothers, 5 different fathers, whereas all 5 dogs were represented in the working class would again be the highest level of difficulty possible. The individual placings of the individual dogs is also taken into consideration. So, this, combined with the other factors in the kennel group plays a big part of the judging of the kennel group.

by Mystere on 10 June 2010 - 21:06
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 21:06
The thing is.. is that normally always.. I have like 4 females and 1 male in making this combination, or 3 females and 2 males.. in which I can put the females in the middle and one male on each end. This year, for me to make the highest level of difficulty with 5 mothers and 5 fathers, I needed to use 4 stud males in the kennel group. I had never done this before in all my years of presenting kennel groups... I had never even used 3 stud males before. I thought about it not being a good idea.. and considered not putting all of these males together... but then .. I thought that none of them had ever had any issues before .. and I convinced myself that for the 15-20 minutes that they would be in the ring together.. that it would probably be just fine. Well, I was wrong... it was hot and humid and all of them had just come out of competing and running in the working class just beforehand... for those of you who do not know how the kennel groups are presented, it is not like just going into the ring like for a show whereas the dogs are in single file .. one in front of another... it is different for the kennel group. In the kennel group the dogs are sat next to one another very closely with only inches separating one from another. Titan was not interested in being pushed and smooshed together with the other stud males at all.. he did not want to be close to the other stud males and wanted to move away from them.. but we tried to make him sit next to the other males and he wanted to start some grief with them. Of course, to make matters more difficult, it is also important to know.. that if someone was at training or at home and they had to have two males near each other.. they would also have training equipment on the dogs..so that they could correct the dog if need be... we had four stud males in there sitting with one another, all four of them are active breeding males, and they none had any training gear on... Titan was only wearing a show collar.. so there was no real way to correct him when he first acted up toward the other stud males. In the absence of training equipment, he also could not physically reprimand him either because that also is not allowed. So, he had no way to correct Titan in any way.. that is why Eddie had to think quickly in getting between the two males and grab Titan and remove him from the other stud dogs. Titan did NOT bite Eddie, and Titan did NOT bite the other males (he wanted to bite the other males) but Eddie acted very quickly between them and intervened and did a great job (better than I could have done) in that situation with no training equipment. Again, I could have used two of my females from the working class and make a 4-5 combination between mothers and fathers.. and it would have been just fine ... I would have then had 3 females and 2 males in the kennel group... and it wouldn't have mattered, the kennel group would have still won.. I just wanted the kennel group to have the 5-5 combination and believe me, if I thought one of the males would have gotten that crabby, I never would have put all four males together like that.. and I have learned that I will never put that many stud dogs together in a kennel group again. I was also told by one of the breeders who had another kennel group in the ring.. that they had two females in their kennel group that were in full blown heat.. so .. that also could be what set things off too.
In any event, I will forever be sure to have plenty of females in the kennel group in the future to separate the males in the kennel gr
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 21:06
The thing is.. is that normally always.. I have like 4 females and 1 male in making this combination, or 3 females and 2 males.. in which I can put the females in the middle and one male on each end. This year, for me to make the highest level of difficulty with 5 mothers and 5 fathers, I needed to use 4 stud males in the kennel group. I had never done this before in all my years of presenting kennel groups... I had never even used 3 stud males before. I thought about it not being a good idea.. and considered not putting all of these males together... but then .. I thought that none of them had ever had any issues before .. and I convinced myself that for the 15-20 minutes that they would be in the ring together.. that it would probably be just fine. Well, I was wrong... it was hot and humid and all of them had just come out of competing and running in the working class just beforehand... for those of you who do not know how the kennel groups are presented, it is not like just going into the ring like for a show whereas the dogs are in single file .. one in front of another... it is different for the kennel group. In the kennel group the dogs are sat next to one another very closely with only inches separating one from another. Titan was not interested in being pushed and smooshed together with the other stud males at all.. he did not want to be close to the other stud males and wanted to move away from them.. but we tried to make him sit next to the other males and he wanted to start some grief with them. Of course, to make matters more difficult, it is also important to know.. that if someone was at training or at home and they had to have two males near each other.. they would also have training equipment on the dogs..so that they could correct the dog if need be... we had four stud males in there sitting with one another, all four of them are active breeding males, and they none had any training gear on... Titan was only wearing a show collar.. so there was no real way to correct him when he first acted up toward the other stud males. In the absence of training equipment, he also could not physically reprimand him either because that also is not allowed. So, he had no way to correct Titan in any way.. that is why Eddie had to think quickly in getting between the two males and grab Titan and remove him from the other stud dogs. Titan did NOT bite Eddie, and Titan did NOT bite the other males (he wanted to bite the other males) but Eddie acted very quickly between them and intervened and did a great job (better than I could have done) in that situation with no training equipment. Again, I could have used two of my females from the working class and make a 4-5 combination between mothers and fathers.. and it would have been just fine ... I would have then had 3 females and 2 males in the kennel group... and it wouldn't have mattered, the kennel group would have still won.. I just wanted the kennel group to have the 5-5 combination and believe me, if I thought one of the males would have gotten that crabby, I never would have put all four males together like that.. and I have learned that I will never put that many stud dogs together in a kennel group again. I was also told by one of the breeders who had another kennel group in the ring.. that they had two females in their kennel group that were in full blown heat.. so .. that also could be what set things off too.
In any event, I will forever be sure to have plenty of females in the kennel group in the future to separate the males in the kennel gr
by The Good Life on 10 June 2010 - 21:06
Stop the stupid, un informed crap slinging. If you want to prove how good you are compete. Don't lash out about what you don't even know. If you want to improve the breed, pay for the best. Don't complain when you have nothing to offer, or have no actual experience. It is a hard, expensive, sport. We all can improve and learn.
I have never until today seen an actual top winning breeder on this site. This is one of the good kennels in the sport. If you have a question or need anything they will help. I wish I was close to a club like Julie's, her knowledge and willingness to share is unparalled!!!
by Mittelwest on 10 June 2010 - 22:06
One thing is for sure, that no matter how long I am in dog sport, no matter how many times I do what I do, I am always constantly learning each day still something more and more... and have learned that no matter who the dogs are, I will never place that many stud dogs together again...
I congradulate everyone that participated at the Sieger show...it was a really fun Sieger show.. both on the field as well as after we were done competing each day... I look forward to seeing everyone on the trial fields, show fields and training grounds ! Enjoy your family, enjoy your dogs and enjoy your friends.
Yours truly,
Julie Martinez
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