Czech GSD's with bad hips - Page 33

joanro, my buddies allanf and melanie are probably banned from using this site thanx to you and u'r wiseass comments which gets under people's skin...

Fortunately, I was warned and took the advise... i've also dealt with worse so don't worry...

Ha, ha, ha, I don't know of any dog or line that will not produce HD when mixed with the right partner. I don't know of any dog or line that won't give you a litter of HD free dogs if matched with the right mate. So every dog in a pedigree has the potential to be the source of the resulting HD in a litter. The interaction of the dogs is far more important than the individual hip rating in either producing or decreasing HD. The majority of breeders and posters seem to place an emphasis on the latter rather than the former. This is why there is a lot of sanctimonious posturing about "the only right approach", but the results of improvement for past 25 years don't coincide with the rhetoric . The problem is you have to have indepth knowledge of the dogs used to use the first approach, and with the popular approach you just have to have two certified dogs. Some get it, others never will.

Nobody is banned for someone else's comments....people are banned for their own lack of discipline and actions.....period!

Gustav, ya just can't get reason to be absorbed by an unwilling mind ;-)

Yes, I am sure They didn't read my previous post. Here is the deal....if I have a litter of nine and two of the litter are dyspastic, do you repeat the breeding. Well it depends for me on the results of the litter in total quality.....the HD in the litter is normal percentages. If the working quality in the litter was superior...then I would repeat the breeding....I guess that makes me not as reputable, but I have to consider the total picture, plus I am a realist.

What you said,Gustav....that is how every single goal oriented breeding program is done, for every single domestic species developed by humans from the earliest days til present.
But not every one has the capacity to understand the complexity of goal oriented breeding of domestic animals (dogs included). So they would probably be better off not troubling themselves with trying to grasp what is beyond their understanding. Playing WII might better suit them.

I understand the low probability  in your scenario Gustav. The poor family that gets one of the 2 dysplastic pups and cant afford the  hip replacement. You love your pet, invest time ,money and emotion and have to put it down so it doesnt suffer. Seems a bit of a harsh trade off. I do understand that it is ia crapshoot, but it doesnt make it any easier for those owners. I am not one, just sayin.. Devils Advocate.  I wonder if you would buy a car or a house if the owner told you that there was a 2 in 9 chance of it instantaniously combusting? I understand the breeders point of view, It is a work in progress but I also understand the buyers point of view.

Gustav... so you are happy with 22% HD as per your above post...and consider this normal... By whose standards is 22% normal...

I quote you " If the working quality in the litter was superior...then I would repeat the breeding...."

So you are saying that the superior working quality would make you repeat the mating even though you know that this litter will in all probability produce another pair or more pups with bad hips...

and then the pups in the litter with good hips are bred and they start producing bad hips thus the cycle continues...that's why after so many years of breeding there is no improvement...people with your breeding mentality....

A typical example: a breeder imports 2 Gringo sons as pups, 1 fails hips and the other passes...the one that passed was bred with and in his first litter, a beautiful dark sable male with superior working drives but guess what, terrible hips...
Another Gringo son, imported with SchH3, etc. He was bred with and sired pups with bad hips, don't know the numbers but I definately know of the bad hips from this male...
The person that imported him stopped using him for breeding... tells you that there are still some ethical breeders out there...This is a true example, not just a scenario made up for the sake of explaining my point...

joanro - you've already proven that there is no hope from your breeding programs with the breeding mentality between your ears..so i'll never ever refer a potential buyer to VOM RON GSD's....

People - a dog with bad hips will never be the same as a dog with good hips...
The dogs with good hips will have longer working careers on the sport field, in the forces, even in pet homes...
The dogs with bad hips may have to be put down later in life...some much earlier than others...

A typical scenario: A person imports a puppy for his/her breeding program... only to find out later that the hips are terrible and this dog should obviously never be bred with no matter how great the working qualities are...
This sets the person back in terms of time as he/she has to obtain another puppy and grow it up at his/her cost... as well as financially, as he/she has to now pay the extra shipping, etc.
There is so much more like the attachment/bonding, the effort put in for training, Vet bills, etc, etc, etc...
and then you find breeders that say the superior working qualities are more important...
Please note: The overall HEALTH is more IMPORTANT....

There are many superior dogs out there Gustav, don't think your dog is the best and that you cannot find a better Stud or Dam out there....
Spend the money on Stud fees instead of causing heartache for "just another puppy buyer"...
 

@Aadilah.....yep I would... I view this differently from you....simple as that.
@Shandra....if you get a dog from another breeder that thinks differently from me and you still get HD, will you feel better?. Only 3to4% of our bred has crippling HD. For the average owner, if the dog has superior temperament and you didn't X-ray, you wouldn't even know the dog was dysplastic. I do not advocate HD, but its a part of the breed and breeding for total dog and low incidences is my apptoach The hyperbole on this subject is astounding...but understandable considering all the talking points!