Cesar Milan with a territory ( agressive) GSD - Page 3

Excellent post Centurian .very good examples 👏 . I love how u share your knowledge . Im doing a seminar with a dog trainer that speaks the samy way u do . And im paying a good few pound the last 2years 3times a year for this knowledge and u just give it away . 😂😂😂👏👏

Yogi thank you . BTW , had a dog in the family we named Yogi :-). But I am not in reality saying anything that is out of the ordinary. what I find disheartning is that many people overlook that the GS is a pensive , calculating , opportunistic , problem solving animal with thoughts , feelings and emotions... all attributes that enable us to ineract with it. And also that makes it if not the best breed but one of the best breeds of all canines.  I have trained many breed of canines in different relams from protection to other sports. We often forget that the GS cannot deductively reason. BUT it can inductively reason ! This is why I suggested , maybe awkwardly the difference between training and teaching. To some this is semantics but I am trying to make a point conceptually. And what I would share with you Yogi because of your compliment : If a dog decides to do something... then it surely will do that something ! No big secret . We make interacting with dogs as if it is based on some kind of some exceptional knowledge that is needed. Simple communication from a human to dog . 

    Training vs Teaching : Consider  the difference between Classical Pavlovian Condition training where a dog automatically / reflexively was 'trained' to salivate when hearing a bell and the or the sight , smell of food as opposed to a dog thinking through and problem solving.

 

      So ... to really spin your mind ... two things : First , If I get the dog to come to my way of thinking , then as the expression goes : I am in like Flint , meaning I can get the dog to choose reliably to do whatever I want it to do , how I want it to , when and where i want it to .. simply because .. the dog had already has decided that with predictive results from his own mind chooses to already do that. Same with people : you can get anything from someone by simply exchanging or giving to them what they need and want ! Therefore I need not command but replace the command as the leader , as a Permission.  I rather am  Permitting the dog to do what it already desires to do. Back to the "out" .. I do not command the dog to out . For the dog has decided that when it hears my direction to out that it is in it's better interest to out. Having said that,  the dog has learned that it wants to out in essence as much as it wants to bite. Secondly , anything that I operantly condition the dog to do then is easy for me to change that operant teaching , if I want to, into  a classically conditioned response. Meaning that the dog has ingrained that thought process like the color of his eyes and now the dog doesn't have the need to have to think about what he is thinking.  The thoughts tha it already has now have have become imbedded into his psyche. This rings me to the fact that now the dog wants to perfrom the task more than I am requesting it. As much as the dog  can't wait to bite and is allowed to bite, the dog can't wait to out. So when I choose , I to,  I allow it to out .

       However the opposite is not true. If I classically train* something  then it is much much much harder to get the dog to be thinking when it is performing ,of what it is performing and how it is performing.  Because classically is synomous with automatic , reflexive.. impulse on the spot, it doesn't think .  So ... is there a  difference in training as opposed to teaching ... yes there is . And a classically conditioned response will ALWAYS alway always  , unless taught otherwise , override an operantly learned task. 

   What this has to do with the thread ? As an owner of a dog or a child we have a very high resposibility to raise both and if you are not willing to raise and Teach , not just train , but teach . then you should think twice about a dog .

And it would be great - happy dogs, happy people - if the only humans who kept dogs thought about it like that, Centurian. Unfortunately, here in the real world, at least the 'First World', dogs are too often regarded as just another commodity, people believe they have 'the right' to own a dog no matter whether they have the right facilities, enough money to keep them properly (in the most basic sense, I'm not talking about all those silly humes who want to spend fortunes on luxury goods for their dogs), and the social responsibility to regard their dogs as companions they NEED to teach/train (whichever description you want) and give leadership to. Complete novices usually do not have the accumulation of knowledge to make an educated decision about whether they should own dogs or not, they just go "It's pretty, I want one". How great a percentage of first time owners do you know who stop to think seriously about what their chosen dog will need, before they get one ? How many people do any sort of research before they buy the dog ? The number of people who recognise how to "think dog"; know how to read its body language; realise that, as you say, they should act quickly to encourage the dog to understand the person's body language and intentions, without having been around the block a few times with family and friends pooches to get used to how dogs are, is a fairly small proportion of the total new dog owners, IME. And yes, that can apply to people who are "involved with Rescue", too. They want to start with big guarding dogs; do they not realise that 8 week puppy will grow into something that can push them over ? Not as if with GSDs they get to see many adults of them about, the breed is so rare on the streets and on the telly, isn't it ???

Hund ... to answer your specific question and a poinant commentary at that you wrote. A small percent .

Personally , that is the reason for my posts ... to discuss and exchange ideas as well as enable people that are trying to be better and to better their dog to think about subject material for themselves . Your points are well made and similarily you also do give people something to ponder. : - )

I just wish there was more evidence that people ARE all pondering such advice ! In these days of advanced communications, and internet based availability of information, there really is no excuse anymore (even if there used to be years ago) for people to say "I didn't know ...". Seems to me we can all SAY "Do your homework on the breed and the breeders; see the pup with its mother; different sorts of dogs need different sorts of homes, amounts of exercise, etc" and so on, until the cows come home. But when so many people impulse buy, and it's clear a lot of them don't want to pay heed to any advice that's offered, wadya do ???

Yeah keeping a dog is a big responsibility. We hardy do long travels anymore; our dog does not stay with anyone. For vacations all of it is domestic and only at dog friendly hotels ( so whole family and dog is tagged along...but I/we love it )

Mithuna, that is the best post I ever read of yours, you sound genuine and human.

Good job.

Are ya'll seriously saying that this is a strong and confident dog? Seriously?

I don't think anyone has said that BE; we've just wandered into discussing the people that have 'dog problems', not Cesar's problem dogs !

BE, everybody here are trying very hard not to show any disrespect to Cesar Milan...