GSD orgs, a guide for the perplexed. - Page 3

Joan, that´s interesting: " The breed standards are provided by the respective Breed Clubs." ( AKC )
What´s the official US American breed club for the German Shepherd in this case? GSDCA?
So they should be able to set rules ( working titles, conformation, health tests, breed surveys, too ).

Only for clarification ( FCI members ) : http://www.fci.be/de/members/

Bubba, I think it´s a pretty good idea that the "country of origin " sets the rules for a breed within FCI. The founders of a breed should decide about the breed, not any uninvolved countries, that suddenly decide to like German Shepherds with floppy ears...

VK, in my country there are breed clubs, and there are working clubs. They are members of VDH, and VDH is member of FCI.
My breed club is SV ( member of VDH and FCI ). Germany is the country of origin for the German Shepherd dog, so SV is responsible for the standard.
Trials held within VDH / FCI are acknowledged within the clubs.
Breed surveys are only acknowledged if judged by an SV/SV foreign judge - made to preserve our standard.
SV founded WUSV, an organization for German Shepherd dog organizations throughout the world ( German  Shepherd dogs only, makes sense..)

A couple of years ago Dr Helmut Raiser, a former well known member of SV, founded RSV 2000 ( for me still a terrible thought ).
After a lot of trouble they became member of VDH and FCI, too.
For now the trials are the same (IPO), the breed surveys (and the breeding rules) differ, and are not acknowledged between SV/RSV vice versa.
 

The FCI was created by the largest breed clubs in Europe to protect their "brand integrity" and control over the "product". The other function of the FCI is to be ringmaster and scheduler for European based competitions and shows. The FCI does not represent the world any more than Miss Universe represents the universe. The FCI is like the EU's protection of champagne as being from France even though other regions of the world now produce wines equal or superior to French wines.

@Keith Grossman, not sure which part of my post you think is incorrect. As susie said, IRO and DVG titles, earned under their respective organizations judges, are recognized by the SV, but RSV2000 titles are not SV/WUSV recognized. I may have thrown in an opinion about NAVHDA's knowledge to EFFECTIVELY use FCI rules within the continental United States, but still, I didn't hear any rebuttals about that idea either. Living Fence also gave excellent and accurate answer as well.

Bubba's ramblings sound like a whole lot of rationalization by someone who doesn't want to do the work to insure his dogs meet the (minimum) standard for the breed.

We have standards for a reason. Can you imagine the confusion if everyone got to decide for him/herself what the definition of a millimeter should be?

Bubba, Champagne is Champagne, because it is cultivated and pressed in a special part of France.
You know the term "trademark" ?
The "German" Shepherd dog is a German Shepherd dog, because the breed was created in Germany.
Coca Cola, McDonalds, Basketball were created in the United States.
Nobody on this earth is going to question the "American" rules..

Maybe I should start to sell my homemade flavored black water as " Coca Cola "...

The standards for IPO are not the same as the standards for the GSD. The basic fallacy of organizations like the USCA is that they have dogs to do well in IPO and compete for titles and points at IPO competitions not to breed better overall GSD for all uses in the USA. Some of these GSD fanatics equate winning competitions with breeding dogs. If the USCA was "for the German Shepherd Dog" as they claim they would breed dogs instead of importing them from Europe as all USCA winners and team members to their own holiest of holy high dramas the WUSV have been since the USCA was split off from the original USA based GSD schutzhund conglomerate in the late 1970's. The USCA claims to be for the German Shepherd Dog but there are increasingly other breeds represented in the USCA clubs such as pit bulls, Rotties, and other biting breeds. Clearly the USCA is about IPO more than breeding a better GSD for everyone .. they just want to win titles, competitions, and go to the IPO and WUSV championships more than any other GSD group in the USA which does not equate to any standard or better GSD as a breed. I have some high drive police and competitive IPO type GSD dogs and there are fewer than .01% of the US population that can handle these dogs and live with them which probably explains why much, much less than .01% of the US population has one. No matter how much the SV and other IPO based GSD organizations promote IPO as a selection for breed worthiness the public both in Germany, the USA, and worldwide will reject it. That explains why IPO as a sport in Germany, in the USA, and worldwide is dying.

Bubba???
USCA = UNITED SCHUTZHUND CLUBS OF AMERICA = no German Shepherd dog breed club
I´m German, but I´m always glad to be helpful...

I´m really glad, that you are one of the few breeders worlwide that are able to breed outstanding working dogs without any kind of former proof, be it sport or "real" work. Maybe you are willing to reveal your personal secret of breeding. A lot of people would like to know.

Apparently Susie doesn't know the USCA at all  .. a link to their web site http://www.germanshepherddog.com

The description the USCA uses for their organization  .... USA is the steward of the German Shepherd working dog and the premier Schutzhund club in America.  Yes I know they can't use USA but they persist in this misleading use of the term USA instead of USCA.

Susie .. I would say that sparkling wine is sparkling wine and France and their trademarked champagne has become somewhat irrelevant to many wine experts since many other parts of the world produce comparable or superior sparkling wines. I would say that the FCI and the EU rules both have the same goals which is to maintain a false sense of superiority based on brand rather than quality and performance through controlling the message and the market. Just as in the wine world some without adequate knowledge or a sophisticated palate must rely on brands as a guide to wines in the GSD world those who are knowledgeable and experienced enough can separate the titles and the pedigree from the actual individual GSD and it's personality and character. Increasingly the SV and the IPO world GSD are sold to the buyer with too much money and too little knowledge.

In the USA, the AKC affiliated breed clubs propose their own standards to the AKC, but these standards must be approved by the AKC. That is why so many independent breed clubs resisted absorption into the AKC, only to have a few people found an alternative club specifically to circumvent the existing one and to join AKC.

In standards submitted by the breed clubs the AKC does not accept any requirements for registration beyond their own, i.e. a) the dogs who the breeders name as sire and dam are registered within the same registry as the litter, b) the breeder has to register the litter. Only recently a DNA verification has been introduced for frequent sires. Beyond that, there is no system of checks and balances as there is in the SV and RSV.

To maintain quality of breeding 'stock', breed clubs in the FCI system can set requirements for registration such as health, performance, and conformation tests for the parents, and, to slow the loss of genetic diversity, limit the number of breedings a sire can have ('frequent sire' problem) and limit inbreeding (currently the limit is at 3,3 in the SV). AKC does not approve of these requirements, and AKC affiliated breed clubs cannot write them into their breed standards.

There are always some errors in any registry, be that due to an honest mistake, a clerk's error, or due to fraud. However, in the AKC system, you see more registration errors than in the SV system.

Hope this helps.

Living Fence (pedigree researcher)