This is a placeholder text
Group text
by pod on 14 July 2010 - 09:07
Jamille
"So Would it make sense if a B/T is carrying The Dominant black and is bred to a Sable that is out of 2 sables ( Shouldn't be carrying Dominant Black)"
A 'normal' B&T couldn't carry dominant black, as that would make it a seal tanpoint. Have looked for a photo of one but can't find. The tan points are very dark and quite different from the black overlay darkness seen in dark bicolours, more of a ghost pattern, actually brownish colour, though of course brown pigment isn't possible on a black dog. I don't think you could confuse a seal tanpoint with a normal B&T.
"Produce:
- Solid Black
- B/T
- average Sable
- Dark Sable"
Well yes, I see all of those as possible but there's not really enough known about seal to give accurate prediction of what could be produced, and the main anomaly lies in its intermittent expression. Why do some heterzygous dominant blacks show it and not others? Clearly there are other genes at work that contribute to expression and when we figure in the phenotype of the dark GSD where leg and body shadings already exist by virtue of the genes for mask, recessive black and probably others, it becomes a bit complicated. I think we may have to wait for DNA analysis to fully understand.
And yes, agree with Cristine (sorry didn't read your post until after I'd written the above). All of those could be explained without involving dominant black.
"So if it Is Possible for the Sable to be Hidding the Dominant Black as well.? "
I wouldn't say it's hiding dom black, more of a heterzygous expression - semi dominance, when seal occurs.
"If the coat shows Black points in E Locus areas that Bi-colors might express , like Tarheels and Toes? But, because the Sable has the phaeomelanin pigment to offer for hidden Brindle or possibly hidden Dominant Black ? Could the Sable dog be more likely to offer the Dominant Black over the B/T. "
I''m not sure I properly understand your queastion but you have raised a very interesting point. If seal allows minor expression of phaeomelanin pigment in a heterozygous dominant blacks, could it also allow brindle to express, where normally it would be completely supressed by the dominance of black? ie seal is thought to be K ky but could K kbr also apply? I don't know.
Agree with Christine in answer to the rest of your post.
Thank you for posting the photos JC. I'd heard of the himalayan pattern dog but not seen a photo!
"So Would it make sense if a B/T is carrying The Dominant black and is bred to a Sable that is out of 2 sables ( Shouldn't be carrying Dominant Black)"
A 'normal' B&T couldn't carry dominant black, as that would make it a seal tanpoint. Have looked for a photo of one but can't find. The tan points are very dark and quite different from the black overlay darkness seen in dark bicolours, more of a ghost pattern, actually brownish colour, though of course brown pigment isn't possible on a black dog. I don't think you could confuse a seal tanpoint with a normal B&T.
"Produce:
- Solid Black
- B/T
- average Sable
- Dark Sable"
Well yes, I see all of those as possible but there's not really enough known about seal to give accurate prediction of what could be produced, and the main anomaly lies in its intermittent expression. Why do some heterzygous dominant blacks show it and not others? Clearly there are other genes at work that contribute to expression and when we figure in the phenotype of the dark GSD where leg and body shadings already exist by virtue of the genes for mask, recessive black and probably others, it becomes a bit complicated. I think we may have to wait for DNA analysis to fully understand.
And yes, agree with Cristine (sorry didn't read your post until after I'd written the above). All of those could be explained without involving dominant black.
"So if it Is Possible for the Sable to be Hidding the Dominant Black as well.? "
I wouldn't say it's hiding dom black, more of a heterzygous expression - semi dominance, when seal occurs.
"If the coat shows Black points in E Locus areas that Bi-colors might express , like Tarheels and Toes? But, because the Sable has the phaeomelanin pigment to offer for hidden Brindle or possibly hidden Dominant Black ? Could the Sable dog be more likely to offer the Dominant Black over the B/T. "
I''m not sure I properly understand your queastion but you have raised a very interesting point. If seal allows minor expression of phaeomelanin pigment in a heterozygous dominant blacks, could it also allow brindle to express, where normally it would be completely supressed by the dominance of black? ie seal is thought to be K ky but could K kbr also apply? I don't know.
Agree with Christine in answer to the rest of your post.
Thank you for posting the photos JC. I'd heard of the himalayan pattern dog but not seen a photo!
by jayne241 on 19 July 2010 - 09:07
3 more bumps and the main page may be back to normal... I love the genetics threads!
by darylehret on 19 July 2010 - 18:07
Then I'd like to repeat my question that went unanswered in the first page. Are there even any proven carriers at all of dominant black in the gsd? None that I'm aware of. Sounds like it's being supposed that the unicorn (brindle) could still exist, but only under presumption that the dragon (dominant black) exists as well, for it to be recessively concealed.
by darylehret on 19 July 2010 - 18:07
Then I'd like to repeat my question that went unanswered in the first page. Are there even any proven carriers at all of dominant black in the gsd? None that I'm aware of. Sounds like it's being supposed that the unicorn (brindle) could still exist, but only under presumption that the dragon (dominant black) exists as well, for it to be recessively concealed.
by PTR626 on 20 July 2010 - 02:07
I came across this photo on a forum. Is this what a brindle GSD pup would look like or is this pattern already existent in the GSD working lines of today?. Just curious.
by BlackthornGSD on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
Here's another (beautiful) dog I'd bet is a dominant black:
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/522436.html
Take a look at the solid black puppies he's produced and then take a look at the mothers, their pigment, and their bloodlines.
Christine
www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/522436.html
Take a look at the solid black puppies he's produced and then take a look at the mothers, their pigment, and their bloodlines.
Christine
by BlackthornGSD on 21 July 2010 - 03:07
PTR, looks like a brindle to me. But is s/he purebred?
Is it possible the GSD has a recessive brindle gene, not just the typical dominant one?
Is it possible the GSD has a recessive brindle gene, not just the typical dominant one?
by LAVK-9 on 21 July 2010 - 04:07
Thought this had some interesting info about the brindle
aringsburgkennel.blogspot.com/2009/08/brindle-german-shepherd-dog-lost.html
aringsburgkennel.blogspot.com/2009/08/brindle-german-shepherd-dog-lost.html
by BlackthornGSD on 21 July 2010 - 05:07
That site looks like it was created sheerly to generate ad revenue.
by pod on 21 July 2010 - 11:07
Brindle is neither fully dominant nor fully recessive. It's midway on the K locus between K - dominant black and ky - yellow. So, if yellow pigment is present in agouti pattern dogs (sable or tanpoint) brindle will dominate and show on the tan areas. If brindle is present with dominant black or recessive black (or of course white) it will not show.
I've not heard of any other type of brindle in dogs, but it is possible that new mutations could occur as someone on the blog has claimed. Thanks for posting LAVK-9
I've not heard of any other type of brindle in dogs, but it is possible that new mutations could occur as someone on the blog has claimed. Thanks for posting LAVK-9
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
