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by apoArmani on 02 May 2010 - 21:05
As for FCI; as expected {unfortunately} not so descriptive, but non-the-less again the pastern is used for the front limbs whereas the hock only for the rear...nowhere under FCI Standard No.166 / 10.08.1994 / GB, is their a term "rear pastern".
"LIMBS
FOREQUARTERS : The forelegs are straight, seen from all sides, absolutely parallel seen from the front. Shoulder-blade and upper arm
are of equal length and, due to strong muscling, firmly placed against the body. The angle of the shoulder-blade and upper arm is ideally 90 degrees, but more generally 110 degrees.
Elbows must turn neither in nor out, either standing or moving. Seen from all sides forearms straight and, absolutely parallel to each other, clean and firmly muscled. Front pastern has a length of approximately
1/3rd of the forearm to which it has an angle of 20 to 22 degrees. A pastern which is too steep (less than 20 degrees), restricts the dog's use, in particular his endurance.
Feet : Rounded, well closed and arched. The soles hard but not rough.
Nails : Strong and dark in colour.
HINDQUARTERS : The position of the hindlegs is slightly backwards, though the hind legs are parallel seen from the rear. Upper and second thigh are almost equal length and form an angle of about 12O degrees. Thighs strong and well muscled. The hockjoints are strong and firm. Metatarsal stands vertically under hockjoint.
Feet : Closed, slightly arched, pads hard and dark in colour. Nails strong, arched and equally of dark colour."
To conclude: My debate started with 'bazza', by me pointing out that the term "rear pastern" is not used. Also would like to add that its NOT a case of 'I'm right...you're wrong'! Just my observation in the last 35 years or so where I have never seen nor heard the term in critiques. If there is one (German Shepherd Critique/Breed Survey) out there stating "rear pastern" and refering to the hock area, please some one scan it and post it so as I can upload to frame so as to remember this debate!!
Thank you for your audience
"LIMBS
FOREQUARTERS : The forelegs are straight, seen from all sides, absolutely parallel seen from the front. Shoulder-blade and upper arm
are of equal length and, due to strong muscling, firmly placed against the body. The angle of the shoulder-blade and upper arm is ideally 90 degrees, but more generally 110 degrees.
Elbows must turn neither in nor out, either standing or moving. Seen from all sides forearms straight and, absolutely parallel to each other, clean and firmly muscled. Front pastern has a length of approximately
1/3rd of the forearm to which it has an angle of 20 to 22 degrees. A pastern which is too steep (less than 20 degrees), restricts the dog's use, in particular his endurance.
Feet : Rounded, well closed and arched. The soles hard but not rough.
Nails : Strong and dark in colour.
HINDQUARTERS : The position of the hindlegs is slightly backwards, though the hind legs are parallel seen from the rear. Upper and second thigh are almost equal length and form an angle of about 12O degrees. Thighs strong and well muscled. The hockjoints are strong and firm. Metatarsal stands vertically under hockjoint.
Feet : Closed, slightly arched, pads hard and dark in colour. Nails strong, arched and equally of dark colour."
To conclude: My debate started with 'bazza', by me pointing out that the term "rear pastern" is not used. Also would like to add that its NOT a case of 'I'm right...you're wrong'! Just my observation in the last 35 years or so where I have never seen nor heard the term in critiques. If there is one (German Shepherd Critique/Breed Survey) out there stating "rear pastern" and refering to the hock area, please some one scan it and post it so as I can upload to frame so as to remember this debate!!
Thank you for your audience
by pod on 03 May 2010 - 10:05
Hi apo. I haven't trawled through any GSD critiques but I knew instantly where I could find the term in the critique of a well known GSD judge officiating in another breed -
Crufts 2008 Helen Davenport Willis - "Firm, if a little long, rear pasterns."
http://www.dogworld.co.uk/Show-Reports/CRUFTS-2008-bmd
It's not a term often used in critiques, I think because rear pasterns of correct length are most oftern described as "hocks well let down," which is equally correct, but I have no doubt that there are instances of its usage in GSD critiques.
"As for FCI; as expected {unfortunately} not so descriptive, but non-the-less again the pastern is used for the front limbs whereas the hock only for the rear...nowhere under FCI Standard No.166 / 10.08.1994 / GB, is their a term "rear pastern"."
THe FCI is quite clear in their use of the term "hock" in that it is a joint. The metatarsus is the area directly below the hock and is interchangeable with "rear pasterns."
Crufts 2008 Helen Davenport Willis - "Firm, if a little long, rear pasterns."
http://www.dogworld.co.uk/Show-Reports/CRUFTS-2008-bmd
It's not a term often used in critiques, I think because rear pasterns of correct length are most oftern described as "hocks well let down," which is equally correct, but I have no doubt that there are instances of its usage in GSD critiques.
"As for FCI; as expected {unfortunately} not so descriptive, but non-the-less again the pastern is used for the front limbs whereas the hock only for the rear...nowhere under FCI Standard No.166 / 10.08.1994 / GB, is their a term "rear pastern"."
THe FCI is quite clear in their use of the term "hock" in that it is a joint. The metatarsus is the area directly below the hock and is interchangeable with "rear pasterns."
by bazza on 03 May 2010 - 14:05
Thank you for your contribution Pod, you are so much better at explaining things than I.
Anpo, with all due respect your actual words to me were" there is no such thing as rear pasterns" and not as you posted above "the term rear pastern is not used". As there are many here who have heard the term, Pod's quote from Helen Davenport Willis's critique, and various other quotes you have been given I think you must agree there is such a thing as rear pasterns. Just because you have never heard of the term, does not make it so, sorry but facts are facts. Most here say TOPLINE I personally call it the OVERLINE, doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong, both are used only one more than the other.
Anpo, with all due respect your actual words to me were" there is no such thing as rear pasterns" and not as you posted above "the term rear pastern is not used". As there are many here who have heard the term, Pod's quote from Helen Davenport Willis's critique, and various other quotes you have been given I think you must agree there is such a thing as rear pasterns. Just because you have never heard of the term, does not make it so, sorry but facts are facts. Most here say TOPLINE I personally call it the OVERLINE, doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong, both are used only one more than the other.
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