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Onyx,
How much experience do you have in the sport world or with pro that work dogs?

First off sport or real life training all starts off the same, at least with the training that I have seen. 

The difference between sport and real pp training IMO is the training goals of the persons who buys the dog

A versatile gsd you can take either direction.

Some sport people purposely do not want to work their dog in defense.  Depending on the temperment the dog may not even see the person behind the sleeve.  This is not to say the same dog couldnt be a good pp dog it just depends on the goals you set. 

It is hard to judge your dog with out seeing him actually bite at least on a sleeve.  Take him to a new location one that he has never been to and a trainer who he has never seen before and video record how he bites.

By the way after the 1st agitation my dag had she would alter on command, but she is more on the civil side
If PSA is an your area you may want to get involved in that.

One question:  How did you choose this dog?  bloodline, or just by chance ect, ect

Robert

Onyx said,


"show dogs and Sch Sport dog in general havnt got the balls i feel"

Sport Dogs in General
So does this mean that if your dog was trained for a sport he would be less of a dog? 

that sounds like what you are saying.

Some have  it others do not and that goes for show line, workine line, rott, malinois, dobe, psa , sch

i have no wish to ever get a showline gsd but I have seen washouts on the part of both.  And of course i have seen good working line and some show line that were nice as well.  And when i say this i am speaking of dogsthat would bite for real.

Think about this
Reread all of the posts.  And instead of defending your actions listen to what peolpe are saying.  I would bet that they may know something that you do not know.

Am proud to own a dog with balls and yes i would be happy with a well disciplined in control dog myself. But at the moment i am enjoying my dog and am PROUD and  APPRECIATE the joy he is bringing me. Through his presence and casual strolls we take in the Forests all these last 8 years has been MAGIC..Nothing to do with OUTS and  body suits and lets see how much before he breaks... And i dont recall me mentioning that i would be a clown and have kids near Onyx as he was not raised with any obviously.. Onyx will also bite to protect me and he has never chased anyone in the park, like a crazy loose nut...Sure his suspicious and alert but not some  Mut out to seek and destroy... You guys are quick to judge by some mucking around video clip... And someone said it was "training" WTF...

EGO IS NOT A DIRTY WORD...

Onyx,
I'm glad you are enjoying your dog that is what it is all about.  Keep in mind that you posted the video and asked for opinions.  No one was really judging you, just responding to your judgemental comments regarding sport dogs.  You asked if a sport dog could do both and the answer is yes for many sport dogs. 

Jim

This quote jumped out at me:  "i dont see if the dog doesnt deal with the public how can it be a time bomb liability.. "

So what exactly do you do with your dog? Does it rot in your yard and never go anywhere with you? How sad for your dog.

You claim to live somewhere where training is not allowed, yet claim your dog has bitten six people? I can't imagine the authoritues would allow you to have him if the laws were that strict. Something is fishy here.

Can all sport dogs truly defend their handlers/homes/family?  No. Is every dog with a sport title a guranteed crapper for PPD? Of course not, and anyone places generalizations like that is blatantly flaunting his/her ignorance and lack of real experience in working dogs.

And here's a news flash for you: Not everyone WANTS a PPD. Not everyone is responsible enough to own one. There is a place in this breed for more than one type, and more than one kind of training.

My daughter is working toward her SchH1 with her showline bitch, and I would pay money to see you try and lay a hand on her when she is out walking her dog.  That dog is mellow and laidback and definitely not as high energy as a working fancier would like but she is hard and she is serious and if you mess with her "momma" you're coming back missing an appendage or two.  When her work is worth videotaping I will post some. Until then her protectiveness with my daughter is almost completely untrained and natural. 

I can alert my 7 yr old Rikkor Bad-Boll daughter anytime, on anyone, anywhere, without equipment. She is not schutzhund titled, I didn't bother after her hips came back failed, and instead did a small amount of PPD work with her before she broke a canine and chipped another. Is she the biggest, baddest PPD on the block? No. But if I needed her to, she owuld get the job done, I have no doubt.

Of course I suppose this is all hearsay, you can choose to believe me or not. Enough people on this board know me and my dogs in real life, I have nothing to prove.  If you want to have a serious discussion on how sport training has affected civil drives in the GSD, you may want to be less closed minded and NOT make assumptions when you have no real facts based in actual experience.

Jim,

Fair enough i agree that i asked for opinions, but of Onyx himself and not about me being a MR MACHO with a "bad ass" dog.. Like i said that i would like to own a more controlled dog, but wouldnt want to run around and claim it to be a
man stopper, because of some titles and ribbons.. Which i feel alot of breeders use as a selling tool these days... 
Border Patrol dogs were the REAL dogs that performed at a different level and with discipline i imagine.. But was just thinking, would they need to have been trained, to OUT after an attack or were they just bred to bite and hold.And did this then give the reputation of the DDR dog being courageous and preferred REAL Service k9..

Rob, 

Have had contact through the working people and trainers for more than a decade, and have heard different views from various trainers and yes they do promote controlled type dogs and so they should... My aim is to breed guard and family companion type dogs as it would be foolish for me to do otherwise... I am familiar with Onyx's line and had faith in the breeder, who picked him out for me.. So it was my intention to get a naturally aggressive dog, fit for my personal protection.

Nothing more nothing less..

KCzaja,
 
First of all my dog had these bite sessions before the laws changed, and second of all my dog does get out and enjoy life and not rot as you like to think.. Maybe you should get out more often and keep waiting for your dog to be worth video taping. And also about all these claims you make about your females, sounds like something you would see in a Lassie movie.. Have you been to a rock concert and seen lunatics on Crystal Meth wanting to bite your dog ?
 I guess not ..How would your females do in this situation,and like you said every dog has a purpose..
So i suggest you get out there and play some frisbee, with your gorgeous girls..!!!

Ps; I have the contacts for legitimate training, but wont be needing that in a hurry..

The trainer we were working with had an elbow surgery, I am happy to wait to work with someone of his calibre. Tell you what, when she's ready to trial, I'll let you know and you can come on out and see for yourself.  I'm not going to video my dogs unless I really have something worth videoing and posting. It's just how I do things.  If you really like you can peruse this video: www.youtube.com/watch The training isn't clean, this dog is primarily retired, but I pull her out for tours occasionally.  I'm sure you'll only see exactly what you want to see, rather than what's actually there.

And, um... "Have you been to a rock concert and seen lunatics on Crystal Meth wanting to bite your dog ?"  Can't say I have...not really my crowd?

Yea the whole concert thing....why would you bring your dog to one anyway? Yes have seen nut jobs on meth as it is the poor mans cocaine out here and was in Kentucky as well. Still no one tried to bite my dogs!!
Onyx-I still don't get you....not that I ever will. In the clip of your dog it isn't doing anything with courage.It is just barking!! My Rott mix does that on command. There is no threat against your dog there is NO fight.That is what you are saying in the title of the clip. I have seen the web site.I am taking it you are in Romania then? You are right that the DDR and Czech lines are hard dogs. I have had the pleasure of meeting the head of the Jinopo Kennels a few weeks ago and know his partner out here in the states.THEY know what a hard dog with courage is.Maybe yours is but in that video it isn't showing anything but barking.When you pull him away....he stops and goes with you calmly.To me that isn't that hard.The DDR dog I had  would have to be dragged him away from the decoy or wait till the decoy left before I could walk.(unless I gave command) As does f KCzaja's dogs.I have seen them first hand. So when you get a better clip then show us his real courage and fight.