Show and Working Lines, 2 separate breeds - Page 3

 At the risk of sounding redundant, I still feel that the issue here is not "show line" vs "working line", but rather, genetics and responsible genetic manipulation (I am not pointing fingers at anyone.) Max von Stephantiz started the SV in 1899, which is a little over one hundred years. From an evolutionary standpoint, one hundred years might as well be one hundred seconds.

The dangers of inbreeding and segregating gene pools is not my opinion, it is scientific fact. Most "bad" or "undesirable" traits are recessive, and when you limit the size of your gene pool, you increase the likelihood of seeing and propagating these hurtful traits. I feel that people in both camps are guilty of breeding for traits that might cause serious problems down the line.

A great example of this in the wild is the plight of cheetahs in Africa which are possibly moving toward extinction. Whether because of manmade or natural causes, the cheetahs in Africa are living in isolated gene pools which are driving them toward extinction. These dangerous recessive traits that are becoming more prevalent are not always visible "genetic deformities... They might be seen as an inability to hunt for prey, an inability to reproduce naturally, an inability to successfully care for their young, etc...

I just feel that we should be a little more aware of the consequences of what could happen to the GSD.

I'm puzzled why Snaiper is keen to bring in Mali s and Dutchies to "improve" the working line GSD, can't see anything wrong with them as they are myself.  Can't speak for Dutchies as I've no experience of them, but I've had experience of quite a few of Malis and can't see any advantage to introducing them, I prefer the substance and stronger nerve of the GSD any day and think the Mali would benefit far more from the odd infusion of GSD blood than the other way round.

Margaret N-J

It was one of my new year's resolutions to stay off this message board. As a matter of fact I had promised my husband and one of my friends that, but I have to say something about the following statement Bancroft made:

Kennels who do intercross are in the vast minority. They usually breed for the active companion market and people who want to dabble in club level sport, agility, obedience. 

 While there might be "kennels" like that, especially the ones who conveniently own both male and female, this is absolutely not true. Quite a few kennels in Germany and elsewhere are looking for the betterment of the breed by selecting more "balanced" animals to bring the breed back to what it used to be. If it will work remains to be seen, but please check with Arlett, Wildsteiger Land, Bad-Boll, Laerchenhain etc. for these so-called mixes.

I have my own mix on the ground right now, 10 days old - 6 beautiful, dark and lively females. Dam is my beautiful workingline female Chuckie who is a bit of a living legend in her former region (7) in Germany. Just ask a workingline person about her from this region. She consistently produces V-rated structure, BSP-participants and one of her sons from her first litter is the 2008 German Vice Universal Sieger. She just whelped her litter by VA-Arko vom Butjenter Land who had top progeny groups in the past two German Sieger Shows. Do you honestly think that I went through all this expense and effort to "satisfy the pet market"? www.vomsilbersee.com/chuckiearko.html I am not going to get into the discussion of pros and cons as it does not lead anywhere. We all have our own opinions and it is usually impossible to change somebody's mind. Especially this topic is very sensitive to some. I know because I even got hate mail over this breeding. From the U.S. though, not Germany. Our friends and acquaintances in Germany are very supportive and just as curious about the outcome as we are. Ok, I am off this board and back to my dark cuties. Just try to keep an open mind that breeding is thinking in generations and not something as a quick fix or side income to satisfy a certain market. At least, that is what it is supposed to be.

Bark and Hold Finaly someone try's to see the big picture.

Kczaj you make very good point regarding some dog's not being worked correctly, as well that some are just screw up because fo bad breeding.

Gustav, I always enjoy your post and you do make a lot of good points.

I don' know why the rest of my message did not post, but here it is:

While there might be "kennels" like that, especially the ones who conveniently own both male and female, this is absolutely not true. Quite a few kennels in Germany and elsewhere are looking for the betterment of the breed by selecting more "balanced" animals to bring the breed back to what it used to be. If it will work remains to be seen, but please check with Arlett, Wildsteiger Land, Bad-Boll, Laerchenhain etc. for these so-called mixes.

I have my own mix on the ground right now, 10 days old - 6 beautiful, dark and lively females. Dam is my beautiful workingline female Chuckie who is a bit of a living legend in her former region (7) in Germany. Just ask a workingline person about her from this region. She consistently produces V-rated structure, BSP-participants and one of her sons from her first litter is the 2008 German Vice Universal Sieger. She just whelped her litter by VA-Arko vom Butjenter Land who had top progeny groups in the past two German Sieger Shows. Do you honestly think that I went through all this expense and effort to "satisfy the pet market"? www.vomsilbersee.com/chuckiearko.html I am not going to get into the discussion of pros and cons as it does not lead anywhere. We all have our own opinions and it is usually impossible to change somebody's mind. Especially this topic is very sensitive to some. I know because I even got hate mail over this breeding. From the U.S. though, not Germany. Our friends and acquaintances in Germany are very supportive and just as curious about the outcome as we are. Ok, I am off this board and back to my dark cuties. Just try to keep an open mind that breeding is thinking in generations and not something as a quick fix or side income to satisfy a certain market. At least, that is what it is supposed to be.

I have my own mix on the ground right now, 10 days old - 6 beautiful, dark and lively females. Dam is my beautiful workingline female Chuckie who is a bit of a living legend in her former region (7) in Germany. Just ask a workingline person about her from this region. She consistently produces V-rated structure, BSP-participants and one of her sons from her first litter is the 2008 German Vice Universal Sieger. She just whelped her litter by VA-Arko vom Butjenter Land who had top progeny groups in the past two German Sieger Shows. Do you honestly think that I went through all this expense and effort to "satisfy the pet market"? www.vomsilbersee.com/chuckiearko.html I am not going to get into the discussion of pros and cons as it does not lead anywhere. We all have our own opinions and it is usually impossible to change somebody's mind. Especially this topic is very sensitive to some. I know because I even got hate mail over this breeding. From the U.S. though, not Germany. Our friends and acquaintances in Germany are very supportive and just as curious about the outcome as we are. Ok, I am off this board and back to my dark cuties. Just try to keep an open mind that breeding is thinking in generations and not something as a quick fix or side income to satisfy a certain market. At least, that is what it is supposed to be.

I have my own mix on the ground right now, 10 days old - 6 beautiful, dark and lively females. Dam is my beautiful workingline female Chuckie who is a bit of a living legend in her former region (7) in Germany. Just ask a workingline person about her from this region. She consistently produces V-rated structure, BSP-participants and one of her sons from her first litter is the 2008 German Vice Universal Sieger. She just whelped her litter by VA-Arko vom Butjenter Land who had top progeny groups in the past two German Sieger Shows. Do you honestly think that I went through all this expense and effort to "satisfy the pet market"? www.vomsilbersee.com/chuckiearko.html I am not going to get into the discussion of pros and cons as it does not lead anywhere. We all have our own opinions and it is usually impossible to change somebody's mind. Especially this topic is very sensitive to some. I know because I even got hate mail over this breeding. From the U.S. though, not Germany. Our friends and acquaintances in Germany are very supportive and just as curious about the outcome as we are. Ok, I am off this board and back to my dark cuties. Just try to keep an open mind that breeding is thinking in generations and not something as a quick fix or side income to satisfy a certain market. At least, that is what it is supposed to be.

I am sorry but I give up. For some reason, the text does not show. But when I ue the "edit" button, it is right there.

maybe the text color was set to white?  ( there, but invisible)