MOTHER DOG EATING PUPS - Page 3

Quote from the thread creator: WHAT CAN I DO TO PREVENT HER FROM EATING THE REST

Call your vet tomorrow and schedule an appointment for a spay. This will prevent her from eating anymore puppies.

Im sorry but a dog who eats her puppies is not a good breeding dog.

Do you mind showing us your dogs pedigree? Im curious of knowing what kind of genetics were seeing here.

I have to agree with Rainhaus and Chisum on this, and based on what my vet stated.  He said this is a VERY common thing that happens, especially in dogs that are older and with their first litter.  He didn't say anything about it being genetic, which I'm not sure if it is or not,  he said most of the time it is due to the location and if the bitch felt her puppies were safe (which is what I think happened with my bitch). I of course immediately thought that she was a wack-job, but he assured me that what she did was completely natural motherly instinct.  And he said he would certainly breed her again, I am just not so sure if that is something I would ever want to go through again.   

This behavior sounds similar to what hens do (of all avian species).  If they feel that their nest is threatened, they start chucking the eggs out of it, or start breaking open the shells and eating the chicks.  It can also be caused by a nutritional definciency, and young of any species is rich in vitamins that the depleted mother may find necessary to consume.  Eating the afterbirth may not have been enough (in her mind) to compensate for birthing 16 puppies, and she felt that she wouldn't be able to care/feed for all of them. 

What are we really doing when we hand rear "rejected" puppies?  If there's a reason (perhaps unseen by us) for the rejection and those puppies are later bred from themselves... what are we producing? 

I years ago saved a puppy that was rejected by the mother and a friend took him and bottled feed and cared for him. Well , six months later he died of liver problems. Not only did I learn not to save rejected puppies but also lost a good friend. So now if mom pushes away a puppy I do not question her judement as she knows better then I do.

Some have stated that the wild instinct of a dog is to eat her puppies THEN why are you trying to save them if that is what the mother would do in the wild?  out in the wild there is no bottle feeding. Does not make sense. 

EK

EK, It's hard to let a puppy die, if it can be saved.  I think the real problems may start when those same "rejects" are bred from.  If we save our rejected puppies, shouldn't we endorse their pedigrees to prevent them being used for breeding?

Misbeep Yes it is hard but harder to deal with as the puppy has been with a family for 6 months and the children are crying and there is nothing you can do but think "what if " or "I should have". It is the respondiblity of the breeder to deal with making that choice of life or death. That is why not everyone is cut out to be a breeder. 

I no longer have those lines anymore  not just because one puppy had liver problem but because there was one nutters, crippling HD in most of the pups so I stay away from those lines.

Yes, as breeders we should all talk among ourselves and educate on what lines have what problems But you can not even talk about HD without it being taboo. No one wants to admitt they have or had it in lines, then you have the bs people that want to start crapp. So where does that leave you? Live and learn and making hard life choice that means taking a life in some cases.

That is why I stated earlier That I would spay the bitch as I would not want to have to make that call or watch more helpless puppies die. People can say all they want that the bitch is this or that , that it is instinct or stress  or blah blah blah but how many puppies does she have to kill before the owner wakes up and says enough. Even if you save 1 or 3 puppies from this litter is it really worth it? Is it worth all the trouble and emotional stress put on the dog, owner and dead puppies? I don't think so but it is not my dog and I am just looking in on the situration and giving my opinion.

EK

 This is environmental and nutritional.  I have NEVER heard of a 'GSD' having 16 pups for starters.  Maybe its a Shiloh or King Shepherd, Great Dane?   This poster is a brand new poster and I am fairly certain his dog is not a GSD.

I had a dog called Madonna von der Drei Sonnenseen.  A GREAT dog.  She had an accidental breeding to my male Zuni, Nolte vd Wienerau, she was 20 months old.  She had ONE (fabulous) pup called Bonita vom Kerschberger, a fab female I still have today, she will be 5 in December.  Madonna was a fabulous mom to her and she had only the one pup.  She was happy, got lots of exercise and was well fed here.  Then, Madonna killed, by accident, my obnoxious Terrier Rescue Butch over a prairie dog.  60 lbs Madonna with her super drives was attacked by 18 lbs terrier Butch and Madonna struck back, one snap and he was killed....  It was awful.

I was real upset and sold her to a breeder who was, unbeknown to me, a very bad breeder.  Lied about everything.  She bred Madonna immediately and later claimed that Madonna ate her entire litter.  I didnt believe her, but, a  yr later after tracking down her former employees, it was confirmed that Madonna had eaten that litter.  NOW, why would Madonna be a perfect mother here at my house and not elsewhere?   Upon further questioning the former employees, it was confirmed that Madonna was NEVER let out of her kennel to play, was fed a substandard food, (Diamond) and was bred artificially.  

Conditions to raise a healthy litter starts with the Dam and her pack.   My female went to Germany last October for her Schh1 and she was supposed to go in heat within 2 months.  She NEVER did (Jexi) and upon her return she went in heat IMMEDIATELY!   The other female, which went with her, (Uschi) was supposed to go in heat during that period much sooner too, and had a split heat, one in April and again in May.   She is more mature than Jexi, but had never been bred before.   The kennel they were at is not what they were used to so they couldn't be themselves.  Eventhough they were both fed well, raw and kibble, and returned looking healthy, they were clearly not happy.   Too much stress is a threat too.   Uschi delivered a healthy litter on July 3rd and like clock work is in heat again exactly 6 months after she was bred.  As of this writing the pups are 4 months old.   She is home and happy again lives in a natural pack setting.  

Conclusion: That female eating her pups is not necesarrily a lost cause, but her breeder does not know what the dog(s) need.  Did they over breed her for her to conceive that many pups?  It is quite logical for the dog to thin the herd as she only has 10 nipples and clearly the weaker pups would starve to death unless her breeder does what is required.  This 'breeder' , and I use it loosely, has not done their homework and is irresponsibly breeding this dog especially claiming this is the second time around.  

I suggest therefore that you stay out of breeding, and do the dog a favor, and spay it for her sake.   First time offense, ok, but not the 2nd time and 'wing it' again.   Good and proper breeding comes with, first, have some money in your pocket, breed correct dogs, do your homework as to what is involved, and always put your dam before the well being of the litter.  Meaning, she needs to be in TOP condition, health and stamina wise.  Nutrition, living conditions.  

IF I had a bitch that ate her puppies then I could never ever breed her again I could not deal with the possibility that It could happen again.

After the whole adventure of sorting through pedigrees and choosing the stud to the end product of a health litter of puppies and then for her to eat them would all be just too heartbreaking for me. I think that I would desex her and place her as a pet.

These days I am no longer working and when I breed a litter for the first few days I stay with her day and night until I am sure she is settled and coping well.

As a vet nurse I once had to deal with the owner of an English Bull Terrier that could not stop at the cord and just kept going and the whole litter had to be euthaniased (at least those that were still alive) because they had huge abdominal wounds.

Having worked in a Zoo, (my first job) I've known many animals eat their young.  Generally, it was thought to be because they didn't feel secure in their environment. 

EK, I pretty much agree with you, but my real concern, is what happens when these "saved" pups are later used for breeding?  If the bitch was right to reject them... what bigger problems might we be introducing to the breed?

We're removing the "law" of, "the surival of the fittest" then breeding on from it!  Can that ever be a good thing?