German Showlines with working ability - Page 3

Ya'll are gonna LOVE Jed the Goof-ball!

SS

I completely agree that you have to get out there and actually see the dogs do the work. However, I do not believe that you can get a good feel for a dog's working ability at a show.  The "performance" test or a demonstration of a breed survey does not give enough of a picture for me to determine how good a dog is. I can tell how good a dog isn't from that, but there is so much more.

I want to see a dog track, I want to see obedience, I want to see protection training! I want to see the dog's behavior around other dogs it doesn't know, people it doesn't know. I want to see pressure and the dog's reaction or response to that pressure. I also want to know if the dog is trained or titled. There is a difference.

One really has to determine if the dog's lack of ability is handler/training, or genetic. You can't tell that from video, pictures, or a dog running around a ring. You  have to see how the handler and dog work together.

Anyone is welcome to see my boys work on any field within driving distance--with any helper. I often volunteer their services at helper seminar/cerification events. It's free and good PR for show lines. I do not have the discretionary funds  to pay field and helper fees to work my already titled and mostly retired males.

You want to see tracking? You ought to see my boy Zeek. He was ready for an FH when my last club disbanded.

Speaking of PR, The more show line dogs with high titles the better, I say!

The nice thing about tracking is you don't need anybody's help to do it once you know what you're doing and it doesn't cost more than $2.00 worth of bait to do it. So get out there Louise and get that FH !   :-))))) 

SS    -safely indoors, writing from  the comfort and convenience of her office, watching the freezing rain  while her dogs try to find high ground in the nearly flooded ex-runs...   I hate PA.

Louise, I especially appreciate your commitment to the breed's overall quality of temperament, confirmation and health. You are what a true breeder of the quality that GSDs should be. Your dogs speak for themselves and prove the point.  And there are a number of others like you that post on Oli's forum too.  I know of at least 12-15 who really are effective breeders and work hard to get overall quality, temperament with working ability, and clean joints.  It's a tough job to try to breed in a way to select out the bad recessives that cause health and joint isues, and tough to selct the good traits.  It takes a number of sucessive generations and careful anaylsis along the way and very careful breeding selections.  There is no substitute for knowledge and honesty with oneself and others.  You for one have proved that even though this is a very difficult multigenerational task, it can be done--because you have done it.

Preston,

I don't breed litters anymore. I just try to mentor to a few breeders and to provide them with alternative stud choices from bloodlines that I trust from personal experience--not because someone else has heard that certain dogs in Germany have so many good qualities to contribute to the gene pool.

I was honored when Inger Olavson (who qualified for the WDA World Team 4 times) bred 3 excellent VA-sired females to my relatively unknown Alex vom Nord Rasen (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/124219.html) when he was older and still only a SchH1.

I visited with Inger in Utah in the fall of 1996 and saw the entire Lex litter that produced the lovely V Quiz vom Olympus SchH3 (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/124221.html--the dam of Zeek and Geronimo) when the pups were 7.5 weeks old. Although Inger almost always titled her dogs herself, she sent Quiz to Germany where she was trained and complete all of her titles before she was 2 years old. Quiz experienced excellent reproductive health and produced 7-8 healthy litters--including a number of titled progeny.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, finding suitable, training/titlling homes for quality show litters is often a daunting task for hobby breeders. This was no exception with the litters that Quiz produced for Inger. 

While most breeders tend to linebreed on well-know studs, I suggested the recent 2-3 linebreeding on Quiz because she was an excellent producing female:  http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=124258&modir=454859

Because many of today's bitches with the best working drives go back to Ursus Batu, I was glad that Geronimo could contribute to this 2-3 linebreeding on Ursus: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=124262&modir=387833.

No, I don't often suggest such close breedings--but, why not do it at least once while we have quality dogs to produce them.

Louise

Have you checked Tim and Kathy Wilmoth's kennel?  They are in Ohio.. http://www.wilmothdogs.com/WK9/

Yes, Tim and Kathy are very conscientious breeders.

I have a friend who recently bred her female Elzie Vom Oak Ranch Shepherds. She is a gorgeous showline that can work like CRAZY. She's left a huge impression on me. If I ever were to buy a showline, I would only buy from her. I can only say good things about this female. She's been bred to Karats Ulko, who is also an amazing male in his own. These puppies are going to be amazing. I want one sooo bad! Hahah. I think they would excel wonderfully in schutzhund and the show ring. You might want to check it out. :)

If you do want to, let me know and I can give you her email.

-Emily.

MygsdRebel

Yes, this litter from Sandy in Utah should be promising.

IMO, the point to this whole thread appears to be to attempt to buy from small, hobby, showline breeders who live in important one-on-one relationships with their dogs (and have given lots of time and energy to training them).

I can't say that a single breeder is the "only" one to consider. However, checking with a pool of such breeders is a good place to start.

After you have selected a breeder, take your time, see some of the dogs personally (if possible multiple generations of the "family" in their home environments and/or at a training field with other dogs), and be willing to wait for a pup from a quality litter. Such breeders do not tend to produce litters in an assembly line fashion. 

You will not have to pay through the nose for a top pup: ~$1200-$1500-$2000 (this latter figure is the most that I've ever paid).