Top Showlines with good protection phase - Page 28

I will say that I was very pleased to see Tracey Bullinger and her kennel win the USA Seiger show(male). Tracey exemplifies a breeder that won't compromise the breeds purpose for its beauty.

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by lonewulf on 20 May 2011 - 13:05

The following are breeders that I consider as having solid knowledge about breeding showlines with working ability: 1. Randy Tyson of Witmer Tyson in Menlo Park, CA 2. Kathy Wilmoth of Wilmothhaus 3. Dee Clark in New England 4. Larry Vinzant in Texas 5. Karen Sinclair of Canada (known as dogwood on this board) Of these I know that Randy would never post on any board You may get some input from Kathy Wilmoth, Dee Clark or Karen Sinclair... and I would defintely welcome that] end of quote Lonewolf/Ravi I totally agree with your comments above except for your #5.  Karen Sinclair, is a dedicated excellent trainer but she is not the breeder of her two competition dogs.  Both Ule & Griff are TeMar bred dogs.  We all know Mary D of TeMar does not train her own dogs but give credit where credit is due.  From watching the TeMar breeding program she is as dedicated in her field as Karen is in hers.  I got to meet Mary D in Texas at this year Sieger show & visit for a short time, she was one very busy person. This is an excellent topic.

Congratulations! This topic is now the most popular topic on PDB. It's been great having an informed discussion about such an important aspect of the German Shepherd breed with  participating. It's one of the very few that stayed on topic, had no bashing, no personal agendeas, etc. I hope it continues. It's the type of thread I hope Oli had intended for this forum.

B.Anderson,

Thanks for participating. I think Cello was one of the dogs identified. Can you trace a few of his descendents that are alive and available today? The dog on the other thread was one, can you think of any others?

Looks like we have our one! There is one person that will throw something out there.

OK! Let's continue and name a few names! I'll continue with Quartz. If you like the results from Quartz and want to continue those traits (the work is just going to get harder you know) What's out there from that family? If it's out there what's the conformation like?

Dog1,,,, I hear you but we don't want to breed to a goat do we? It's a show dog after all and it has to do better than good to be of any value. I can't think of anything in Germany that's from him that's placed well at the sieger show and what could there be in the US?

I guess you just have to take some time to look. The lines are not common as the dogs were not used as much as some of the other dogs. You have to seek the breeders that breed that type of dog. When you know who they are and follow their breeding program, there's a good chance you'll find what you're looking for. How about Tuareg Bad boll? Bred by the kennel that produced the current World Champion, Tuareg placed in front of him at the sieger show. He has Yasko and Quartz. Maybe Zenzi Zellergrund, #5 in the world from the breeder that owned Quartz. A judge just produced a litter with her. Maybe those judges know something after all. How about Nancy Zellergrund? line bred on Cello and Quartz. Then there's the previously mentioned SG10 Miro Zellergrund. They are out there, you just have to take the time to know what you want and where it comes from to find it.

Dog1,,,Ok so there's something out there in Germany,,,,that's Germany what about the US? If you can barely find it in Germany it must be impossible to find it in the US.

Not really, you just have to look and not ask people on PDB who you should breed your female to. She's your dog. Get to know her and what she needs. Look at the males and see what they have to offer and figure it out for yourself. There's quite a few from the bloodlines if you bother to search for it. Haven't you been paying attention as you travelled around the US? Just look for the dogs with fire in their eyes and see where they come from.

There's SG2 Axel from the USA sieger show that's linebred on Amigo. Look at him, big head, good color, excellent conformation and masculinity. Look at his eyes,,,see the fire. It's there. How about the Kaluv daughter Vogue. First in her class in the ring and temperament to beat the band. Give this girl a national level trainer and she's the next universal siegerin. There's quite a few from Ronaldo around, check out some females that work and get a puppy from one. A pup like Bazi from Orus. Just ask his owner what he's like. You'll just have to look where the Quartz dogs were, Gucci and Ronaldo. Recent import Camillo could be an option too.

@ Euro1:

Appreciate the correction/clarification and stand appropriately correcte.... actually I was thinking of Mary-Karen as a single team in my mind though I do understand the way I wrote it makes it look like I left Mary out....

@ Randy (dog1):

Yes this has become the most active topic on pdb and fortunately for all the right reasons...... however I would humbly/nicely request that this remain a discussion with statements/answers/rebuttals between actual different people.... let this not become a schizophrenic dialogue between two split personalities of a single poster in the form of a theoritical soliloquy.....

1. I see and treat enough people like that in my clinic everyday
2. such a soliloquy is no more than a literary auto-erotic activity..... we already have too much of that self-gratificatory behavior on public boards
3. The GSD breed is already split into a schizophrenic dipole..... let our posters at least retain intact single personalities....

Having said that I am delighted and grateful for the contributions made by everyone so far and eagerly look forward to more of the same...

Ravi Iyer
Vienna, VA

Here's a question to Gustav,

There is a line identified here which goes back to VA 2 Tell vom Grossen Sand, if you agree that Tell passed working ability to dogs descending from him, is that due to genes passed to him from Paternal or Maternal side?

I will give my self the freedom to ask one more question,  Jeck vom Noricum is behind many of the Nominees (dogs that work), what do you think of that? I never heared you mention Jeck von Noricum !!!


Ibrahim

PS: If any one likes to comment, provide info we will be thankful to him/her too.

Lonewulf,

You are making very interesting points and providing very precious info, I have a request to you, reading your last post I had to look up 5 words in the dictionary, would you please use simple words when an where possible, thank you.

Ibrahim

Ibrahim,
As I said to you in a private pm, the strength of Tell vom Grossen Sand was his being linebred 4-4 on Mutz v d Peltziferm and 4-3 on Quanto who was the better dog temperamentally between Canto and him. In the mid seventies I had a male out of a Meik vd Peltziferm daughter and Jack vom Furstenberg( a Marko vom Cellerland son). So I am familar with the lines of Mutz/Meik.
The last showline I owned was a granddaughter of Fanto v Hirschel and Mark vom Haus Beck....she had very nice temperament and went VP2 under Leonard Sweikert in the Mid Alantic Regionals some years ago.
As for Jeck vom Noricum, I trained for 5 years with a person who had a Jeck son that was a police dog and also participated in the German Meisterschaft Trial, with very respectable scores of 80-80-82. This dog had fabulous temperament and nice looks but due to an ear that didn't stand he wasn't shown. I have seen other Jeck progeny that I liked, the only concern with Jeck would have been breeding to strong hipped females. Just some random thoughts of mine. 

LOL

Point well taken Ibrahim... 

But a lifetime of academia dies hard.... and you have to admit that ultimately you did benefit by being at least 5 words richer after my last post.... 

Still simplicity it shall be my friend... :)

Thank you Euro & Ravi, no offense taken it was nice to have met you Euro1 sorry I didn't have more time to visit in TX.
Karen & I are good friends co-owners etc.
 
This is a super topic.  Just been preoccupied this week with the sudden illness & death of friend  a true gentlemen on & off the SchH field.
 
Back on topic. 

TeMar also owned a grandson of of Quartz dei Templari  great grandson of Amigo vom Belgier, Diego competed in the Canada Nationals & Sieger show many times, & Sieger shows in the USA with his co-owner Andrea.  Sadly his career was cut short due to a reoccurring injury. 

Our other National competitor was Wotan v TeMar his owner Dave is a Canadian so Wotan has competed in the Canada Nationals & Sieger show, and Sieger shows in the US.  Wotan’s 3^rd generation has Ulk von Arlett, 4^th generation has Amigo vom Belgier, Zamb von der Wienerau, 5^th generation has Jeck vom Noricum, Mark vom Haus Beck, Fedor von Arminius, Frei vom Hirschel.

Mary D
TeMar Shepherds

This whole thread's way over my head.  Ibriham, that work/show cross I did was to a grandaughter  of Yello vom St.-Michaels-Berg (sire's side) who is linebred 4-5,5 on Jeck vom Noricum.