Guddu, AKC is a registry, plain and simple. They are not the dog breeders' morality police. They register many breeds, not just GSD's. AKC leaves the management of each each breed up to the parent breed club; in this case, The German Shepherd Dog Club of America. That club would be in court in a NY minute should they say - a GSD cannot receive AKC registration without a  certified anything. If they wanted, they could enforce that rule for their members, but not the breed at large. This is America, we love to sue and we also love to breed dogs without AKC or the GSDCA telling us how to do it. That might work in Europe, but I promise you it would not work here.

Call me crazy, but I suspect the Czech Republic, Germany, et al wouldn't be very happy if they had to have all adult dogs they export here hip certified before they can be registered.  Would all the adult imports we get here even be eligible for an OFA type hip certification?  If a GSD breeder here exports a dog to a European country that requires hip xrays prior to being bred, does that dog need to have it's hips xrayed clear in order to be registered there?  Do we even export many dogs to Europe?

AKC has tons of information on their website. They have partnered with the Canine Health Foundation and have so far donated millions of dollars to research that benefits our dogs including a 10 year study of the longterm health effects of Ground Zero on the canines used there for SAR including about 10 GSD's. That study alone cost almost a million.

There are literally thousands of GSD's in their hip database many with verticle pedigrees that can be used for research. When you click on any dog in that database you will be able to see which tests it had, the results,  which test it's sire, dam, sibs,  grandparents had, and which  tests half sibling have had. In some cases there are multiple generations represented. For my own dog, I  can see her results, those of both her parents, grandparents, on back to the German imports.  I can also see which of her progeny have been tested, for what, and the results. This information must come from owners and breeders, it is not reported in the database automagically.If your dogs aren't in the OFA database, don't blame OFA. 

OFA also make recommendations on the positioning for hips and elbows, sedating for xrays,  how to best reduce the incident of HD,  statistics on hip evaluations for many breeds.They offer articles about many canine diseases that should be of interest to GSD breeders. What more can they do to make us happy?  

I find it amusing albeit ironic that breeders are so quick to condemn AKC for not keeping them honest.  Well, IF I HAD to have hip certs to register a litter, I'd do it, so it's AKC's fault I don't do it?

This is the link to Dallas' OFA information page. As you can see, there is plenty of valuable information in the OFA database.......... He was an OFA good. The hip results of 188 of his progeny were released by owners for the database - 18 were rated excellent, 141 good, 27 fair, 1 borderline unilateral, 1 mile unilateral.. Yes, he probably produced HD that wasn't reported and it would be valuable to know total that were xray. Still IMO this is an impressive record and the same stats that the SV uses to determine the ZW number, isn't it?  Does the SV always know how many puppies a given dog has produced when they compute the ZW?



http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=618306#animal

Hexe 

Here are my points
1.You said that OFA does not read poorly positioned dogs and you may have even mentioned that  if I know of example that I should report it to some organization.  Here I am showing that they do. Some of the positioning is atrocious.  YOu asked me to give you examples . Thus here you go. 

2.I think it makes only common sense that if someone and especially OFA  builds an educational page then, they should post ALL  XRAYS  which are properly positioned . I am sure they can  select from thousands and thousands available x rays the one which have  properly positioned dogs on it. 

3.All I am saying if  someone is so sloppy that they do not care and post sloppy x rays on their educational website, then  about that then what do they care about?

So who does it right, Hans? You still haven't answered that question? Maybe some here would want to take your recommendation instead of OFA. I'm pretty sure those who don't xray at all are doing the happy dance becasue you have given them yet another excuse to not xray their dogs - OFA is no good.  You are sure to be quoted on  their websites - "This is another reason why I don't xray my dogs, OFA sucks, Hans says so". They need an alternative now, so what do you suggest? SV? Pennhip? A radiologist? The Czech scheme assuming they will even evaluate dog not whelped there? Not every breeder is qualified to read their own xrays are they?

Blitzen all dogs used for breeding in Czech for example and elsewhere too must be, besides other things,  tattooed and or micro chipped and registered with that microchip as pups and  x rayed  in order to be bred. OFA will read any identifiable x-ray of any identifiable dog from anywhere.  BUT  Identifiable is  does not mean uniquely identifiable. 
You ask me whom do I trust. I trust OFA to limited degree  when they read my properly positioned x rays or any other properly positioned x ray of a uniquely identifiable dog ( x ray or tattoo) which I know are not fake. If I do not know that for sure than I take it as the  best possible evaluation available but not necessarily trustworthy. Never less I would like them to post all the x rays which they  graded so that I  and anybody can see what is actually being evaluated. 
Thus my problem is that OFA could do so much more then what they are doing and what they are doing is not sufficient to improve the breed's hips. Which is obvious from the fact that after 46 years there is no appreciable improvement in hips of  GSDs or other breeds.
How do I know that hips can be improved if things are done properly? I know it because I do it  all the time and many other breeders are doing too. 5% or less  of bad hips instead of about 50% which is about a true number if all would send all good and bad x rays to OFA.  Such improvements are not entirely thanks to OFA though. 
The European organizations are much better at this and people in Europe are laughing at gullibility of US breeders who are relying on OFA data for their breeding program.  Data which may be based on high percentage of  sloppy x ray positioning and fuzzy films from not uniquely identifiable dogs.
FYI:  If you microchip a dog at 2 years that is not uniquely identifiable dog since anybody can microchip any mutt with good hips and say that it is XYZ super dog champion/ police / SchH nationals winner. 
I do not like to support such a sloppy  and empower such registry by sending them  x-rays and money BUT I DO SO anyway because masses want it.   Another thing anybody can rely on is that when I send x rays to OFA that they are properly positioned and not on fuzzy film. But does everybody does that . No!  Does OFA care? It does not seems so.  And it also looks like some here do not care either. 

Blitzen you sound like and person who just does not get what I am saying. Where do I say not to x ray at all?  Where? I give you thousand dollars if you can show it to me. 
Here for people who do not get  what I am clearly saying ALL THE TIME . 

There is much you need to do when you breed 2 dogs . One of  those things it that 

YOU MUST X RAY YOUR DOGS BEFORE YOU BREED THEM and honestly consider the actual results!

Those results, if possible, should be based on more then one source. OFAs results may or may not be reliable for above by me postede resons. 
In USA there is no hard and fast way to do so but it must be attempted to do so in honest way. 

Here I  said it 1000s of time . 

Did I say you said you don't xray? I did not. I said that some here who don't xray will use your opinion on OFA as another excuse for breeding GSD's without hip xrays or for using dogs that can't get an OFA number. After all you have owned and bred a large number of dogs over the years so I expect your opinion will have a lot of influence on many of the members here. I know you xray your dogs and evaluate you own xrays, but not everyone is is capable of doing that. Now that you've pretty much trashed OFA's reputation into the shitter I expect some here will no longer want to use them, so maybe you could give some advice on alternative ways to make sure that GSD's have normal hips before breeding them?  When you sell dogs for breeding I imagine you don't recommend OFA so who do you recommend here in the US?  If you don't have any suggestions that's OK, just say so.

No blitzen you said  that I am giving people excuse  not to x ray dogs. Thus that is what I am talking about. 
Here I quote you. 
I'm pretty sure those who don't xray at all are doing the happy dance becasue you have given them yet another excuse to not xray their dogs - OFA is no good.
OFA is not a reason to x ray or not to x ray  the dogs. The need to diminish HD is the rerason to x ray the dogs. 
All I am saying that organization like OFA has responsibility to do more and better then they do. And also what I am saying is that it is not impossible but quite possible since it is done elsewhere. 

Yes, that's what I said, your trashing of OFA without promoting an alternative gives those here who don't xray or who use dysplastic dogs just one more excuse for not xraying their dogs and it does. It's not what you meant, I  understand that. Some here look to you for guidance but some will spin your words to suit themselves.Now that you have made it abundantly clear that you do not breed from dogs without normal hips, you have shut that door in their faces

I disagree that the incidence of HD is not being reduced in the US. Submtting hip xrays to OFA is making a difference here.You probably don't associate with many ASL breeds. If you did you would know that, as I've already said here more than once,  most of the ethical ASL breeders don't get much HD at all anymore. They use OFA  almost exclusively for their evaluations.  They only use OFA normals, and follow the OFA recommendations. I can't speak to what improvements the GSL or GWL breeders are seeing if  using the SV and ZW numbers.

You know another premise of ignorance that pisses me off?, and it is the majority of dyspastic dogs are the result of breeders that use dyspastic dogs or don't certify their X-rays. That is bullshit and so inaccurate. All of breeders in many European countries REQUIRE that dogs have to have certified hips to be bred or register a litter. These places are still developing 20 to 30 percent HD from the KNOWN submissions. Some of you act like these examples don't hurt the breed, or break people's hearts, or whatever....you ignore these examples as you quickly point out breeders that don't certify or use borderline dogs as the downfall of hips in the breed. This is bullshit. Those many examples from certified parents don't have different HD because their parents were certified. Get off your high horse! I don't have the answer to the problem, especially in a society like America in which there are little constraints, but none of the schemes in place right now are adequate in present form.....period. And the implication that these schemes make you a credible breeder is bull also. The only real credible breeders are they that consistently produce good strong breed dogs with very low incidences of health issues ti include HD. Now how they achieve this varies from kennel to kennel, breeder to breeder, and country to country. Anyone else regardless of their breeding practices is hurting the breed and their are plenty of these people of all types from what I have experienced.