2010 USA Sieger Show, Lake Geneva WI. - Page 27

Tess nailed it, Ruger; in any given group of dogs, some will have great color and others will not to varying degrees.  Some dogs in the ring might also be showing signs of paling.  The shows should be about getting an honest assessment of your dog from an objective third party to help you make decisions about your breeding program, not winning at any cost.

"Ruger 1- Don't let these bullies run you off. .....! This board is not good at giving support."

ROTFL!  Hmmmm, when Ruger posted a photo of his lovely Mittelwest puppy here, he certainly seemed to get a lot of support, compliments, and congratulations on that handsome puppy.

"The shows should be about getting an honest assessment of your dog from an objective third party to help you make decisions about your breeding program, not winning at any cost."

Wellll, I'd clarify to say that for a lot of good, experienced, knowledgeable breeders, they know in their own kennel what is good, better, best, and don't need a judge to tell them, but of course the win is validation and advertisement.  But it is true that good breeders will attend for this same reason - to see what is out there, who is producing well and correctly, and most definitely using this to "make decisions about your breeding program, not winning at any cost."  By attending these shows, you see how your own program is compared to others, you see how others are faring, you see where you can find a stud or bitch to improve your own lines, and you see where you most definitely do NOT want to go.

Most important, you often (not always, but often) find the best dogs a little further back in the line than the # 1 winners, and good breeders know that.  Good breeders do decide who to breed to based on their knowledge and opinion and not necessarily on who won first.  They often find just what they need for their program in a dog perhaps that didn't even place on that day.

This thread has turned into a "Who's cheating" at the dog shows......it should not be focused on that.
The primary post regarding the aftermath or final hours of the SS, is actually about the obvious allowance & prejudice of organization officials.
I could care less (actually) who's dog did what from which breeder......honestly;...is that the most importance? NO.
People are not stupid (most people anyway)...and we all know what is happening...no one with any knowledge.. is that blind and ignorant.
It's about the behaviour & ethical practices/allowances of our OFFICIALS while the show was going on...and the actions that followed.
I think it was a huge eye opener for alot of spectators & exhibitors.
The semantics of some in the show world is sad.....but you have some individuals (like above posters), who think it is perfectly fine.  Personally I feel, by their actions...."If that is what they need to do...and they feel good about themselves?....carry on".....they do not matter enough to me to lose sleep over them.
I care more about the people whom we have entrusted our organizations to......their actions & reactions are where my concerns lie.
There will always be "some breeder or exhibitor" that tries to bend the rules in their favor....I want to know that our officers are watching out for the rest of us who do not.
Robin

"I could care less (actually) who's dog did what from which breeder......honestly;...is that the most importance? NO.
.....It's about the behaviour & ethical practices/allowances of our OFFICIALS while the show was going on...and the actions that followed."

You're absolutely right.


"I think it was a huge eye opener for alot of spectators & exhibitors.

I hope so, but kind of doubt it, as the impression I'm getting is that this is nothing new, unless the dog aggression this year was over the top.  But again, if no one speaks up OFFICIALLY, it will never, ever change.

The semantics of some in the show world is sad.....but you have some individuals (like above posters), who think it is perfectly fine. "

Who said it was fine?  I didn't think anybody did except Ruger, and that's just because Ruger is new to dog shows and doesn't know.

Actually, Ruger, I have a question for you:  why do you think dyeing dogs is normal?  Did you just think so, or were you told by the person you got your puppy from that it's normal, or that everybody does it, or what? 

 

Tess,
I never actually realized how much goes on...maybe my own (ignorance & blindness) kept me from "seeing and acknowledging" many of the things posted and complained about in the past......or maybe I just "chose" to disbelieve?!
Perhaps it's because you try to remain cordial & sportsmans like to the same people?....
But year after year I see & hear more....and it still amazes me.
Perhaps you are correct.....maybe less people actually think it's acceptable & normal.?...I certainly hope so.

I'm just curious: at this point are people going to support Phil? Phil, are you going to go forward if you get the funds?  Or was this all just more "forum fodder"? I hope not. Forums like this one should be used to help serious breeders and sportspeople come together to fix issues that need fixing.

At one USA trial I competed in, the long down dog (GSD) left the down, charged across the field and attacked my dog (pit bull).  I lifted my dog over my head and kicked the GSD away until the owner reclaimed him. The judge allowed the dog to be put back down into the down and continue.   

There is no place for uncontrolled dog aggression at an event. 

                        Yikes,.... I sure got myself in a pot of hot water....

                   Schutzhundfan....your being mean again....stating that my dog's sire was Titan is hardly "spewing garbage"....JMO
                    the only point I was making is that Mittelwest dogs IMO don't need to be colored they are naturally very nicely colored.....thats all..

                        Tessj10.....I have a beautiful English Pleasure mare who's tail is dyed from time to time....I was not aware that this was against the rules...I better call the trainer..lol...The tail dyeing does not change her beautiful cadence or her sweet disposition or ability to compete it  just accentuates her natural beauty....My Bad...did not realize what a" bone of contention" this was in the Sieger Show world. It is accepted in the horse showing world to my knowledge..lol...

                              The Good Life.....I am not going anywhere....I need these people too much. Some are a little grumpy, but what I have to gain by staying on this board it's worth it. Thanks for the support The Good Life...

                              Yes, TessJ10.... I have received tons of support and advice from this board. !!!!!!!!!!!!! A big thanks to all!!!

                                                                                     Ruger1

                  

                            

And horse shows allow fake tails, too! 

Yep, dyeing dogs is a big no-no in the dog show world.  Of course cheaters do it, but it is against the rules.

You wrote: "The tail dyeing does not change her beautiful cadence or her sweet disposition or ability to compete it just accentuates her natural beauty."

But you wouldn't base a breeding decision based on the quality of that color, because you know it's false.  And in dogs, where coat color can be a problem - poor pigment is a problem - to falsify the coat color of a dog is not right.  People say dog A is good in structure, gait, temperment, and working ability, and so is dog B, but dog B has better pigment so I'll pay that owner a stud fee and breed to him...only to find out later that dog A really has the better color because dog B is dyed.

Color is certainly a minor consideration, but again, when you have many quality dogs with very minor differences, it may get down to something like quality of coat.  She can't change the gait, she can't change the structure (except for breaking the tails), so she changes the only thing she can - she dyes the dogs to enrich their color.  And she does know it's illegal.