Czech GSD's with bad hips - Page 26

3rd person?  Really?

For heaven's sake, Hans, the images you've posted from the OFA site aren't intended to show POSITIONING--they're meant to show the variations in the conformation of the hip joint itself, thus the lack of the patellas being visible doesn't mean that they aren't seen in the full film...the damn things have been cropped to keep the focus on the hips. 

Correct positioning is found on the reverse of the hip submission form, and clearly shows the patellas [arrows mine]:

Speaking for myself, I'm not into 'it's fun to disagree with Hans', or anybody else, for that matter. When I agree with you, I've got no problem saying so...and when I think you are wrong [as in this case, regarding your broad disparagement of OFA] I'll do likewise.    

Hans, you still haven't told us who you trust to evaluate hip and elbow xrays.

Hans, you just wrote:

" This is a organization which you trust with your dogs to evaluate your dogs hips and to build your breeding program on and like lemmings to follow their decisions.? "

                                                                                                                                                        
See, now, THIS, Hans, THIS is what causes people to question your position on breeding a dog that has been given a rating of dysplastic.

Whether you realize it or not, that sentence sure does make it sound as if you're suggesting that should OFA rate any given dog as dysplastic, but the breeder has seen the films and feels the dog is NOT, then, why, that breeder should just go ahead and disregard that pesky ol' rating from that unreliable OFA organization.

It may not be what you MEAN by this sentence, but that is EXACTLY what it sounds like you are saying.   

The situation will not improve until the AKC gets into the act and demands that all dogs be X-rayed before breeding, or before issuing a final AKC registration of dog. In the meantime, as Hans points out, the data is incomplete in the OFA database and is therefore less valuable as it exists now. Once the AKC gets involved the average dog owner will also be more involved in asking for OFA ratings. In the meantime, my suggestion is that breeders should indicate their "policy/philosophy" on X-raying of breeding stock...whether its "functional" hips, or that they dont believe in OFA, or that they do. That will help somewhat and is quite inexpensive to do.

I do not have a problem with OFA, I have a problem with hypocrisy!  Such as if somebody were to come on the forum and say they had their dogs hips prelimmed ar 14 months and they appear very good, well the usual experts would pop up and say that it means nothing until the dog is Two and has been OFA certified.  Yet that same person could very well be owning and using a dog at home that they imported who had their hips done at 13 months. These prostylized  experts insist on 2 years of age as being only acceptable time to X-ray hips and buy puppies andr use the stud services of dogs that were xrayed much earlier. And folks the dogs don't change because they travel over three thousand miles of water. If your principle is two years, then you should not buy or stud to dogs that were radiographed less than two years. Why can they read hips well enough at 12 months in Europe for you to buy a dog or puppies from that dog, and yet people can't read hips here at 12 months? Is there some magic formula in Europe that allows you to trust their reading, but deems it a irresponsible practice here in the States? I personally find people like this amusing, and the logic of it totally escapes me. See I follow logic and probability, peer pressure doesn't affect me because many so called peers can't read an X-ray or have never bred litters yet they know the most on a forum board. If your principles are a dog needs to be two years of age to get a true reading....then make sure all the dogs you use, own, and puppies procured should be from the same standards of stock. Otherwise, in my eyes you really have no right to chime in with the Amen section that necessitates that a dog has to be two to have valid cert in their eyes.....I deplore hypocrisy!.....lol but again that's my old school upbringing!

Guddu, I get your point, but as for inexpensive....not when a breeder pays for exrays on an entire litter--twice; at one year and then at two. It runs into thousands of dollars. That's not cheap, but does give a data base for any one interested.

I am not a breeder, but most breeders dont keep the entire litter for 1 year. Also, prices would be expected to come down if the number of X-rays being requested was high. Currently, hardly anyone requests an X-ray, but if it becomes compulsory, costs go down. Finally, these costs will be passed on to buyers. Just like in business, when the govt increases taxes on "big bad" business, they just pass on the costs to consumers and indirectly tax consumers. The real question is: should we X-ray hips, is it worth it. We pay for vaccinations, why not for X-rays. Infact identifying dysplastic dogs that should not be bred, saves costs for all over the long term.

All dogs should be xrayed before being bred! I stand by that and I practice that.....if that causes me to hurt the breed....so be it!  I can now be labelled irresponsible....hehe!

Guddu, the price of exrays goes up, not down. If it was compulsory, the vets would jack the price up even more...like it doesn't cost twenty five dollars for one cc of 5way. I've heard the digital exray machines are $60,000. Vets are going to want a hefty return on that investment. Raising an entire litter is costly both time and money, so most breeders don't or can't do it, Not unless they want to see exactly what they have produced. Some buyers expect a life time " guaranteed FREE of ALL GENETIC defects" (I actually had nut claim I told her that) , and replacement for damaged and injured dogs they've had in their possession for four years or so. I don't see buyers digging in to pay for exrays they couldn't be bothered to buy on their own. Dogs being bred should absolutely be exrayed before hand !!