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by vk4gsd on 24 February 2014 - 23:02
attacking the owners publicly on line is the only recourse most of us have as a response to the trauma WE have had inflicted on us as dog lovers seeing such incidents. "attacked" really? bit dramatic?, or just each other greiving and coming to terms with what happened with the hope future incidents may never ocurr anywhere.
by gsd39mr on 24 February 2014 - 23:02
Remember there were TWO properties . The rental property and the home they owned. There were 11 dogs at the owned home and 28 in the rental. (All info from published reports). It seems evident to me that there was segregation between the not cared for and somewhat cared for.
by Keith Grossman on 25 February 2014 - 02:02
Now we know how SitasMom keeps her dogs.
by vk4gsd on 25 February 2014 - 03:02
begs the question doesn't it.
my guess a lot of breeders are running around like headless chickens cleaning shit piled up on crate floors as it "Dawns" upon them that what they thought was acceptable so aint. hell some will be making mighty sure that access to their main-line breeders is locked down tight while the public only see the favoured few at a different public-access location, bet those kennels are spacious, spotless and the dogs get to romp (with immaculate coats) over open, green daisy covered fields for photo-shoots 10teen times per day.
my guess a lot of breeders are running around like headless chickens cleaning shit piled up on crate floors as it "Dawns" upon them that what they thought was acceptable so aint. hell some will be making mighty sure that access to their main-line breeders is locked down tight while the public only see the favoured few at a different public-access location, bet those kennels are spacious, spotless and the dogs get to romp (with immaculate coats) over open, green daisy covered fields for photo-shoots 10teen times per day.
by SitasMom on 25 February 2014 - 03:02
My dogs are kept clean, well fed, well hydrated and well exersized.
Go to hell the all of you!
Go to hell the all of you!
by vk4gsd on 25 February 2014 - 03:02
can't delete, ignore
by Hundmutter on 25 February 2014 - 05:02
Vk, at what point did I ever suggest these are great practices
which should be emulated ? Your penchant for making trouble
for no reason has resurfaced; pity, I was getting to appreciate
your posts more.
For the umpteenth time, I am not defending what she did (quite
the opposite). I have said that IMO I think the mess was much less
time-established than a lot of posters seem to think, based on
'real life' sights and experiences, involving rescue dogs and dogs
living with their breeders (one of whom apparently went mad last
night with a shotgun & murdered 2 women - Karma, or what ?)
I was prepared to stop on my last-but-one posting about the time
factor (note: I did not chow out Keith when he actually made the
bullshit remark) but he wanted to keep it going with his insistence
on his mathematics exercise, so I felt I had to come back. And I
felt both he and I wanted to get this thred away from the Momma /
Victory spat !
Molly&Jack: which was why I tried to raise a small titter, too !
Of course I don't expect people to use a toothbrush they have cleaned
into the corners of ANYTHING with, on their teeth; in 'biting' at that JK
have you not ignored the point I made about people who keep TOO
MANY DOGS TO COPE WITH skimping on their cleaning methods ?
I don't know what Kim is doing; personnally I don't read it that her
posts are actually excusing anything, either. To my mind, she is just a bit
terrier-like with points that has occurred to her, that others seem to disregard ?
which should be emulated ? Your penchant for making trouble
for no reason has resurfaced; pity, I was getting to appreciate
your posts more.
For the umpteenth time, I am not defending what she did (quite
the opposite). I have said that IMO I think the mess was much less
time-established than a lot of posters seem to think, based on
'real life' sights and experiences, involving rescue dogs and dogs
living with their breeders (one of whom apparently went mad last
night with a shotgun & murdered 2 women - Karma, or what ?)
I was prepared to stop on my last-but-one posting about the time
factor (note: I did not chow out Keith when he actually made the
bullshit remark) but he wanted to keep it going with his insistence
on his mathematics exercise, so I felt I had to come back. And I
felt both he and I wanted to get this thred away from the Momma /
Victory spat !
Molly&Jack: which was why I tried to raise a small titter, too !
Of course I don't expect people to use a toothbrush they have cleaned
into the corners of ANYTHING with, on their teeth; in 'biting' at that JK
have you not ignored the point I made about people who keep TOO
MANY DOGS TO COPE WITH skimping on their cleaning methods ?
I don't know what Kim is doing; personnally I don't read it that her
posts are actually excusing anything, either. To my mind, she is just a bit
terrier-like with points that has occurred to her, that others seem to disregard ?
by SitasMom on 25 February 2014 - 06:02
Terrier like.........LOL
None of us know what really happened!
A close friend of mine with 4 dogs, paid a pet sitter to take care of her dogs while she was gone for 2 weeks, upon arival, she was placed in cuffs for animal abuse. Her dog sitter never bothered to do her job, one died, the others ate it, then one dog broke thru a window and escaped. SPCA was called. In court, she proved that she contracted with this pet sitter and charges were dismissed.......the pet sitter sat in jail for 9 months.
Another friend sent 2 of her dogs off for training, it was raided, her dogs, though completely clean and healthy were confiscated in the raid. The spca charged her over 100 a day to board her healthy dogs. She tried to prove ownership (she had all the documents) but the aspca refused to give her the dogs that belonged to her back. She took the aspca to court and after 1400 in lawer fees, she won the case and got her dogs back.
As i've said before, I feel for the people (Charlitans) who are stuck in the middle. The people that thought they were sending their dogs to a safe place for training or breeding. They are getting screwed over!
I have also said that we (outsiders), do not know what actually happened and should not be judge, jurry and exicutioner...
I'm thinking that the terriers are those that want Dawn hanged before she's had her day in court..
None of us know what really happened!
A close friend of mine with 4 dogs, paid a pet sitter to take care of her dogs while she was gone for 2 weeks, upon arival, she was placed in cuffs for animal abuse. Her dog sitter never bothered to do her job, one died, the others ate it, then one dog broke thru a window and escaped. SPCA was called. In court, she proved that she contracted with this pet sitter and charges were dismissed.......the pet sitter sat in jail for 9 months.
Another friend sent 2 of her dogs off for training, it was raided, her dogs, though completely clean and healthy were confiscated in the raid. The spca charged her over 100 a day to board her healthy dogs. She tried to prove ownership (she had all the documents) but the aspca refused to give her the dogs that belonged to her back. She took the aspca to court and after 1400 in lawer fees, she won the case and got her dogs back.
As i've said before, I feel for the people (Charlitans) who are stuck in the middle. The people that thought they were sending their dogs to a safe place for training or breeding. They are getting screwed over!
I have also said that we (outsiders), do not know what actually happened and should not be judge, jurry and exicutioner...
I'm thinking that the terriers are those that want Dawn hanged before she's had her day in court..
by GSD Admin on 25 February 2014 - 07:02
Poor Dogs.
I seem to remember another public case of abuse that played out on these forums and plenty of people defend said abuser until she was caught abusing an elder person and her dogs again. Plenty of egg was on plenty of faces and many members back tracked and changed their farewell posts to her. It was a sad day in PDB history.
Abuse is abuse, no matter how you spin it.
I seem to remember another public case of abuse that played out on these forums and plenty of people defend said abuser until she was caught abusing an elder person and her dogs again. Plenty of egg was on plenty of faces and many members back tracked and changed their farewell posts to her. It was a sad day in PDB history.
Abuse is abuse, no matter how you spin it.
by Hundmutter on 25 February 2014 - 11:02
Pardon me if I have missed something ... but I don't think
ANY of the posts on this thred are IN DEFENSE of this
woman, or her keeping of the dogs. All any of us who are
saying anything to contradict other "hang 'em & flog 'em"
attitudes are doing is to say:
- We do not have the full story from an independant source,
we should have that before we pass final judgements on the
situation.
- It's all 'normal' to be horrified by these events, but spare too
a thought for dogs damaged in other, worse, cases; and
spare a thought for the possible causes of them happening,
mental illnesses can strike anyone, any time: they don't have
to have always been in effect.
- Things can go 'downhill' very quickly in some circustances.
- The actual length of time these dogs suffered those conditions
is not actually all that relevant, whether it was long term or short
term, it's an interesting GENERAL argument (and I have twice
given my reason for raising it) but it isn't a deal-breaker.
- Bad or unreasonable things can (and do) happen in rescue situations,
we should not just ignore that possibility, in baying for punishment
of the offender.
- WE DO NOT HAVE THE FULL STORY...
How many times do you hear of someone convicted of some human
criminal act (wife -beating,murder, rape, etc) and those who knew the
accused say "He was always so nice to us, we would not have thought
this possible." Face it, we do not always completely see what someone
else might, it's part of the human condition (and lack of X-Ray Vision !).
It can work just as much in reverse, with 'everyone' condemning someone
and saying "Well that's just what we would have expected of that person".
And yet they may be aquitted.
Is the 'egg-on-face' any deeper in one case than the other ?
ANY of the posts on this thred are IN DEFENSE of this
woman, or her keeping of the dogs. All any of us who are
saying anything to contradict other "hang 'em & flog 'em"
attitudes are doing is to say:
- We do not have the full story from an independant source,
we should have that before we pass final judgements on the
situation.
- It's all 'normal' to be horrified by these events, but spare too
a thought for dogs damaged in other, worse, cases; and
spare a thought for the possible causes of them happening,
mental illnesses can strike anyone, any time: they don't have
to have always been in effect.
- Things can go 'downhill' very quickly in some circustances.
- The actual length of time these dogs suffered those conditions
is not actually all that relevant, whether it was long term or short
term, it's an interesting GENERAL argument (and I have twice
given my reason for raising it) but it isn't a deal-breaker.
- Bad or unreasonable things can (and do) happen in rescue situations,
we should not just ignore that possibility, in baying for punishment
of the offender.
- WE DO NOT HAVE THE FULL STORY...
How many times do you hear of someone convicted of some human
criminal act (wife -beating,murder, rape, etc) and those who knew the
accused say "He was always so nice to us, we would not have thought
this possible." Face it, we do not always completely see what someone
else might, it's part of the human condition (and lack of X-Ray Vision !).
It can work just as much in reverse, with 'everyone' condemning someone
and saying "Well that's just what we would have expected of that person".
And yet they may be aquitted.
Is the 'egg-on-face' any deeper in one case than the other ?
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