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by crhuerta on 09 June 2010 - 15:06
In all honesty....I really miss the SS & venues from about 8-10 years ago.
People seemed to enjoy themselves more.....even the "questionable exhibitors" of today....seemed to all be good people at one time or another.
Of course there was politics, semantics and some $$ being done......but I think the "personas" were better..?!
I honestly believe that "power and $$" can & DOES change people....I think they lose the "perspective" that they once had....and the true joy & self gratification that an honest "hard" win feels like..
As for judge's opinions......that is all exhibitors are requesting......but they are paying for HONEST, UNBIASED opinions.....that is not many times the case.
Thick skin, good conscience & sportsmanship is all that's needed to continue enjoying these sports....
Choose to move forward and place the last few days behind.....
People seemed to enjoy themselves more.....even the "questionable exhibitors" of today....seemed to all be good people at one time or another.
Of course there was politics, semantics and some $$ being done......but I think the "personas" were better..?!
I honestly believe that "power and $$" can & DOES change people....I think they lose the "perspective" that they once had....and the true joy & self gratification that an honest "hard" win feels like..
As for judge's opinions......that is all exhibitors are requesting......but they are paying for HONEST, UNBIASED opinions.....that is not many times the case.
Thick skin, good conscience & sportsmanship is all that's needed to continue enjoying these sports....
Choose to move forward and place the last few days behind.....
by Mystere on 09 June 2010 - 16:06
Tess,
You are correct. The fact is that the people who actually witness these incidents must step up and do something, other than whine on a message board about it. In the incident I referenced, there were several people who bleated and whined all over the internet about what they saw, but would NOT file charges. In fact, when the idea of filing charges was brought up, they "faded away." This seems to be a consistent behavior from people who demand such courage and constancy from their dogs. Once the charges were filed, by someone else, those same witnesses were not the most forthcoming.
Robin,
I completely disagree with your assessment that the complaints are made to the perpetrators. That is only the case when people refuse to "do the right thing "and file charges. People "complain," hoping that "someone else" will do something about it and they can keep their little hands "clean." That, IMO, is a major part of the problem. Yes, there is a $200 filing fee. That fee is completely refunded, if the charges are sustained. IOW it, ultimately costs you nothing, other than postage.
I count at least two people who have offered to contribute to the filing fee....
You are correct. The fact is that the people who actually witness these incidents must step up and do something, other than whine on a message board about it. In the incident I referenced, there were several people who bleated and whined all over the internet about what they saw, but would NOT file charges. In fact, when the idea of filing charges was brought up, they "faded away." This seems to be a consistent behavior from people who demand such courage and constancy from their dogs. Once the charges were filed, by someone else, those same witnesses were not the most forthcoming.
Robin,
I completely disagree with your assessment that the complaints are made to the perpetrators. That is only the case when people refuse to "do the right thing "and file charges. People "complain," hoping that "someone else" will do something about it and they can keep their little hands "clean." That, IMO, is a major part of the problem. Yes, there is a $200 filing fee. That fee is completely refunded, if the charges are sustained. IOW it, ultimately costs you nothing, other than postage.
I count at least two people who have offered to contribute to the filing fee....
by crhuerta on 09 June 2010 - 16:06
Mystere,
I respect your opinion(s).. as always..
Can you offer an explanation to "Why the Breed Warden & Judge ALLOWED any and all behavior(s) questioned at this particular event??
You disagree & state that people complain and do not file charges.....WHY?....who's ears do they fall on?
If the membership couldn't keep a "simple, stupid rule change" from happening.( and most opinions didn't matter).....what change do you think filing charges of ANY kind will accomplish??....again...I'm not referring solely about the SS.
I hate pointing fingers and breeder bashing......so I refrain from it....and the entire weekend did not consist of only one scenario & breeder....it' shouldn't be about a witch- hunt.
BUT I do believe that "rules, regulations & ethics" must be upheld......it's become a shame, when the "enforcement" we look to, are the ones condoning the actions.
I think the worse thing that could have happened this past weekend...happened. Exhibitors and many spectators alike, saw the "in charge" people of an organization, act in manners unbecoming of the positions they hold.......respect is a horrible thing to lose...
JMO
I respect your opinion(s).. as always..
Can you offer an explanation to "Why the Breed Warden & Judge ALLOWED any and all behavior(s) questioned at this particular event??
You disagree & state that people complain and do not file charges.....WHY?....who's ears do they fall on?
If the membership couldn't keep a "simple, stupid rule change" from happening.( and most opinions didn't matter).....what change do you think filing charges of ANY kind will accomplish??....again...I'm not referring solely about the SS.
I hate pointing fingers and breeder bashing......so I refrain from it....and the entire weekend did not consist of only one scenario & breeder....it' shouldn't be about a witch- hunt.
BUT I do believe that "rules, regulations & ethics" must be upheld......it's become a shame, when the "enforcement" we look to, are the ones condoning the actions.
I think the worse thing that could have happened this past weekend...happened. Exhibitors and many spectators alike, saw the "in charge" people of an organization, act in manners unbecoming of the positions they hold.......respect is a horrible thing to lose...
JMO
by Ruger1 on 09 June 2010 - 16:06
OlgaAshley and Thegoodlife.....I am very new to the GSD show world. However, I do show Western and English Pleasure Quarter Horses. I hate to say it, but anytime people compete at a high level there are these kinds of problems. I have seen it in the horse world and I hate it.........jealousy is usually the underlying problem IMO......
BTW.. my male is a beautiful black/red that needs no dyeing.... I am pretty sure the" Mittelwest red" is all natural...again JMHO...........
be nice....Ruger1
BTW.. my male is a beautiful black/red that needs no dyeing.... I am pretty sure the" Mittelwest red" is all natural...again JMHO...........
be nice....Ruger1
by schutzhundfan on 09 June 2010 - 17:06
Ruger1
I'm Sure Mittlewest's suspension for coloring dogs was all for not then. from what I have read she basically admitted it in emails to persons that filed. being Naive is just another excuse for stupidity IMO
I'm Sure Mittlewest's suspension for coloring dogs was all for not then. from what I have read she basically admitted it in emails to persons that filed. being Naive is just another excuse for stupidity IMO
by vomgrobersee on 09 June 2010 - 17:06
In case noone saw some of the previous posts............. THIS IS TAKEN FROM THE USCA SITE
After incidents of dog aggression in a couple of trials this spring (2008), the USA Judges Committee was tasked with presenting a policy that USA will follow to address any further situations that arise. Aggression would be defined as a dog that bites a person or a dog that initiates aggression toward another dog. We also made sure that the USA attorney looked at this policy before disseminating it for general viewing.
The following will be the official USA policy for dog aggression toward dogs and/or people:
1st Offense
Immediate dismissal from the trial with all scores and ratings deleted and the following notation made in the scorebook: Dismissed/aggression to dog and/or person.
USA, USA judges, and all USA regional directors shall be informed of the incident. THEY DIDN'T NEED TO BE INFORMED THEY STOPPED THE SHOW,
No later than one day following the event, the presiding judge at the event shall file a detailed report with the USA Director of Judges describing the incident and actions taken. This report shall then be distributed to all USA judges. DO YA THINK HE FILED A REPORT?
The officiating judge at an event where an incident occurs is the sole arbiter of any and all decisions made concerning faulty temperament and actions that dictate any of the policy described above
DEFINITION OF ARBITRATOR-A private, neutral person chosen to arbitrate a disagreement, as opposed to a court of law. An arbitrator could be used to settle any non-criminal dispute, and many business contracts make provisions for an arbitrator in the event of a disagreement. Generally, resolving a disagreement through an arbitrator is substantially less expensive than resolving it through a court of law.
WE ALL KNOW THAT NOT ALL THE JUDGES ARE NEUTRAL, THE ARBITRATOR THAT IS CHOSEN SHOULD NOT BE AFFILIATED WITH THE USCA ...JMO
and who am I, just someone who wants to have a fair shake, show my dogs and have a good time! so let's just chalk this up as a learning experience for us all to be better dog owners, better people, as we can only be responsible solely for our own action, ethics, morals, and values.
After incidents of dog aggression in a couple of trials this spring (2008), the USA Judges Committee was tasked with presenting a policy that USA will follow to address any further situations that arise. Aggression would be defined as a dog that bites a person or a dog that initiates aggression toward another dog. We also made sure that the USA attorney looked at this policy before disseminating it for general viewing.
The following will be the official USA policy for dog aggression toward dogs and/or people:
1st Offense
Immediate dismissal from the trial with all scores and ratings deleted and the following notation made in the scorebook: Dismissed/aggression to dog and/or person.
USA, USA judges, and all USA regional directors shall be informed of the incident. THEY DIDN'T NEED TO BE INFORMED THEY STOPPED THE SHOW,
No later than one day following the event, the presiding judge at the event shall file a detailed report with the USA Director of Judges describing the incident and actions taken. This report shall then be distributed to all USA judges. DO YA THINK HE FILED A REPORT?
The officiating judge at an event where an incident occurs is the sole arbiter of any and all decisions made concerning faulty temperament and actions that dictate any of the policy described above
DEFINITION OF ARBITRATOR-A private, neutral person chosen to arbitrate a disagreement, as opposed to a court of law. An arbitrator could be used to settle any non-criminal dispute, and many business contracts make provisions for an arbitrator in the event of a disagreement. Generally, resolving a disagreement through an arbitrator is substantially less expensive than resolving it through a court of law.
WE ALL KNOW THAT NOT ALL THE JUDGES ARE NEUTRAL, THE ARBITRATOR THAT IS CHOSEN SHOULD NOT BE AFFILIATED WITH THE USCA ...JMO
and who am I, just someone who wants to have a fair shake, show my dogs and have a good time! so let's just chalk this up as a learning experience for us all to be better dog owners, better people, as we can only be responsible solely for our own action, ethics, morals, and values.
by Ruger1 on 09 June 2010 - 17:06
Schutzhundfan.....Now that was not nice......Also, I am very cautious to believe what I read or hear ....I want to see those VIDEOS .....
Ruger1
Ruger1
by Mystere on 09 June 2010 - 17:06
Quote by Robin: "Can you offer an explanation to "Why the Breed Warden & Judge ALLOWED any and all behavior(s) questioned at this particular event??"
Robin,
I do not know what was actually observed by any of the officials, so I cannot answer your question in the manner you are seeking. BUT, I can say that if those who actually witnessed those events have the gumption to step up and file BOI charges, the matter will be investigated by the Board of Inquiry members (probably none of whom were at the SS and none of whom, AKAIK, are even show folks) and a determination made whether the conduct was "prejudicial to the interests of USA," whether there is a specific rule about it, or not. These are all warm-bodied individuals with functioning brains, who are certainly capable of seeing that USA's interests in the temperament of the dogs exhibited is the same, whether in a trial or a show. JMHO. ( I could be wrong, but someone will have to file those BOI charges to prove that I am! 
)
(btw-probably not surprisingly, I intend to make a motion at the GBM altering the language of the rule stated above, so that it DOES specifically apply to shows, as well).
On another note, regarding the dog that left the ring, yet was awarded a performance award, I have raised that issue directly with PTB (as the issue is clear in black and white from the results posted on-line) and I fully expect it to be appropriately addressed, based upon the responses I have received.
Robin,
I do not know what was actually observed by any of the officials, so I cannot answer your question in the manner you are seeking. BUT, I can say that if those who actually witnessed those events have the gumption to step up and file BOI charges, the matter will be investigated by the Board of Inquiry members (probably none of whom were at the SS and none of whom, AKAIK, are even show folks) and a determination made whether the conduct was "prejudicial to the interests of USA," whether there is a specific rule about it, or not. These are all warm-bodied individuals with functioning brains, who are certainly capable of seeing that USA's interests in the temperament of the dogs exhibited is the same, whether in a trial or a show. JMHO.
( I could be wrong, but someone will have to file those BOI charges to prove that I am! )(btw-probably not surprisingly, I intend to make a motion at the GBM altering the language of the rule stated above, so that it DOES specifically apply to shows, as well).
On another note, regarding the dog that left the ring, yet was awarded a performance award, I have raised that issue directly with PTB (as the issue is clear in black and white from the results posted on-line) and I fully expect it to be appropriately addressed, based upon the responses I have received.
by Ruger1 on 09 June 2010 - 17:06
Vomgrobersee.............Like the last paragraph of your post....by Mystere on 09 June 2010 - 17:06
That raises the question as to whether ANYONE did raise the issue with the officials, then?????? The judge cannot file a report about something about which he knows nothing, because no one brought it to his attention. IF, in fact, the show was stopped because of this dog's behavior, I would agree that officials were on notice. I DO NOT agree that the specificity of "trial" in the rule is any type of "out" from applying this concept to a show. (See my post above.)
An "arbiter" and an "arbitrator" are two different things.
An "arbiter" and an "arbitrator" are two different things.
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