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by missbeeb on 02 September 2008 - 13:09
Beepy, yes... hope springs eternal...
by Estweyn on 02 September 2008 - 14:09
Thanks for the info Reason re sch, clubs nearby. I am interested in the show side as well as the working side. My dog is not fit enough to go full hog with the sch. training as previously discussed. Nor is he a show dog being a long coat but I am still interested in the show side and love to see a beautiful dog, ideal being a beautiful dog that can work.
Sheffield GSD was always held in Sheffield until we got kicked out of our premises, they were pulling it down- ha its still standing now and is a multicultural centre.
We then moved to Dronfield, I was on the committee at that time and secured Stubley Hollows riding centre with a sort of half open barn affair which was bigger and better for the breed dogs for gaiting. Also we could run two obedience sessions at once and had the opportunity to do agility outsides, we had some really good trainers as well at the time. I know they used that venue for some years after I left the committee and had less to do with the club. It seems a shame that the club does not have these training evenings anymore.
Regarding setting up a club, there is a lot involved and a lot of committment is needed from more than one person if it is to survive. There is also public liability insurance and such to consider, in order to get a club up and running there needs to be some cash backing. Perhaps I should be lobbying Sheffield gsd to start training again but judging by the recent non response from them about a rescue matter I wouldnt hold my breath.
by jesse james on 02 September 2008 - 15:09
Videx, thank you for your suggestions. This is the first draft of my suggestions:-
That the Breed Survey be extended to 2 parts. The existing breed content and Part B a working test. For a class 1 to be given the dog must gain class 1 in both parts. If Class 2 is given for one or both of the parts then the dog will receive a Class 2. If a dog gains Class 1 in only one part of the survey and the owner dose not wish do the other part then a Class 2 may be given. If the dog gains Class 2 in only one part of the survey then no Class should be given. The criteria for the Survey being:- the dog must have reached a minimum age of ? months and undergone all the relevant health tests and have received a minimum result ? To take the working test the dog should have at least passed a BH test If the dog is not issued a Class Survey or only attains Class 2 then a second attempt may be taken. Once the dog is issued with their Class Survey this should be recognised by the KC and added to the dog’s registration details. The KC could then institute a two tier registration system whereby puppies from parents both of which have been surveyed should be issued on a Class A registration whilst puppies with one or neither parents surveyed should be issued on Class B registration. Whilst the above is only a small step towards improving the GSD as a breed it has to start somewhere. The above will in no way preclude those who do not wish to participate. Or, in fact, those who only wish to partake only with the breed aspect of the GSD or the working aspect. However those who wish to fully encompass the GSD as the versatile breed it should be can also pursue this goal.Jess
by reason on 02 September 2008 - 19:09
well the watered down version is collecting some support with Sue B as the champion from the BC now we await Nikki from the GSDL and whoever is lurking from the BAGSD The BAGSD will be the less inclined as their wusv coordinater has made statements (verbal) in the past opposing sch and lets face it this is were this should eventually go
So we will see, can we get Sue B to commit to proposing a form of the simple working aptitude test, combined with a suitable judge (to have real benefit it should be a sch working judge (there are 4 at the moment in the uk all of which are WUSV approved judges and others undergoing apprenticeship training
by Peggy on 02 September 2008 - 21:09
by beepy on 02 September 2008 - 23:09
Peggy thanks for your negative approach.
I have been one of those pet people, and I wanted more than just four legs and a head. I wanted a healthy dog with a good temperment and a good future. Having spokent to many people who have admired my dogs when Ive been out and they are genuinely worried about the health issues in the breed, and have asked if I can recommend breeders to them - fortunately I have been able to.
I have spent the last few years working towards being able to breed, and have been out there and have spent time learning from other breeders, and have spent hours sat in a whelping box so I have to disprove that comment.
As for the show side of things unfortunately the public are also very contrary and they love to be able to say that their puppy comes from champion lines etc,
As for the health issues - they have to be improved and as for taking hips to Germany - I have been saying both on this thread and others that uk dogs should be scored in the UK. I have also had others agree with it, there is a minority that only go to Germany. Another problem as mentioned by Singe is the breeders who feel that health screening is something that they dont need to do.
As for wanting the CC's or having show dogs - there are many people on this forum who dont have show dogs and would never want one, or people who show rarely and certainly dont CC chase.
by Sue B on 03 September 2008 - 00:09
Peggy
Whoever you are, you dont even know enough about Nacale to spell her name correctly, so your opinion on anything about her sort of gets lost in the irony. All that aside, what relevance a bitch born over 23yrs ago has to do with the subject being discussed here now eludes me. Sadly you appear to have some major hang up but please dont feel the need to share, I have moved on, apparently you have not.
Funny how you intimate at a problem with female who was assessed as Class 1 by both Percy Elliott and Brian Wooton at the first BC Survey ever held, whilst in the same breath you appear to be the one running scared at the suggestion of a more stringent character test being introduced into BC Surveys and I who is the one requesting the implementation. Such hillarious irony do you not agree? But then I have faith in my dogs, do you not have faith in yours?
Peggy you and many like you involved in the breed today epitomise the saying "The more people I meet the more I love my dogs".
Oh and yes , just like Beeby I spend hours in my whelping box too and further more I can prove it , can you, Oops of course you cant because nobody knows who you are, what a surprise !!! lol
Beepy, Missbeeb, Reason, Gustav , Langhaar et all who have contributed here my apologies for going off the track and just as I suspected the morons continue to exist, so I bid you farewell as I wont be back to answer anything on here, if you want to contact me directly via email you can do so via email (or by clicking contact on my website).
Regards
Sue B
by Estweyn on 03 September 2008 - 06:09
Sue B,,I havent been a member of this forum long and have picked out the only topics of interest to me ie breed betterment and the EPI issue, although I am not up to date with the breed nowadays I passionately love our breed and feel that people like you and others who are seriously discussing our breed with the object of improvement are to be applauded. It would be a shame if people like you no longer take part in the thread or this forum as people like me want to know and help push forward any suitable proposals. It has been interesting to read the different opinions on here and see them come to a more or less agreed approach which should serve everyone well and can only improve our breed.
Regarding the 'majority of dogs' being bred outside the guidelines suggested, well I have had twoas prime examples. They both came via Rescue, both racked with health problems, probably kicked out because of the problems. Is this really what you are wanting Peggy, dogs bred with no knowledge of health issues producing pups with bad health and adding to the already overflowing rescue problem in our breed. Ok off topic sorry.
I too was and am a little person in the breed, I bred two litters and delivered them myself, one of my dogs got a res cc, the other a working trials champion. Bred from researched stock and all health tested. However I have had invaluable advice and help from those dreaded big breeders in the past, and no I did not have their breeding lines, I made my own choices. There are many people out there who are like myself, got a pet pup nearly 30 years ago but because of the encouragement of the breeder took that pup to obedience classes at a club, got involved with both breed and obedience and continues to love this breed.
Without people such as the minority quoted on this forum our dogs would be racked with HD, epilepsy, haemophilia and worse.
No one is ever going to get through to the back street breeders or the puppy farmers, but a two tier system in my humble opinion may well give the puppy buying public a chance to knowingly buy a pet from health tested lines, rather than paying big money for the earners ie long coated sables, blues etc who may well have been bred without health checks but may have been bred because they are a bit different and the breeder can ask huge sums for them.
Also the puppy farmers and BSBs are not going to go to the expense of putting their dogs through health screening, or through a breed assessment. Their breeding stock just wouldnt make it would they. So they would have to go for the lower tier of registration, the pet buying public would hopefully then make an informed choice and buy a dog which is health screened etc hence in the long term the puppy farmers may well leave GSDs out of their disgusting breedingpractices. This could then have a knock on effect on the numbers churned out into rescues.
And it has to be said where the GSD breeders lead, many others follow.
by reason on 03 September 2008 - 07:09
Well i did not see the post from Peggy but reading between the lines it was some kind of attack on Ch Jacnel Nacale and wether the attack was justified or not that was then and this is now
We are trying to change the future of the breed in the UK and i would ask Sue B to recond=sider her involvement in this thread, Sue B seems to be the only one in a position of influence that is even willing to debate change and without her interest sitting on the BC this is dead in the water
by reason on 03 September 2008 - 08:09
Regarding the two tier registration system, we seem to be in aggreement that the basisi of it is Breed Survey incorporating some form of working /aptitude test (i would like to see the real deal) but that is not going to happen so we go to the watered down version
At present how many dogs per year are surveyed! does anyone have that info, from that info we caould make assumptions that less breed dogs would take/pass the aptitude test but that could be negated by hopefully the working dogs seeing beneifit to the two tier system and taking up the slack, if we then add a number that are brought in from continent with koreung / trainned on the continent we can then take say average 70 per cent bithces being bred 3 time over say 5 years and compare that to the number of GSD registered
That would be an interesting project for someone
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