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by MVF on 30 August 2010 - 04:08
Royal1 - Sorry, there is no reasonable response I can give to your "Big Band Theory." And no life forms evolved from rocks, either.
Red Sable - my case, the case of scientists almost everywhere, does not deny the existence of God! It only replaces the impossibly egocentric view that we are special because we are especially loved with the view that we are special because we are the infection that tests the whole. As my father in law, a famed professor of logic points out, I am making too much of us, as we are a speck of a species on a speck of a planet in speck of a galaxy, etc. So I am, in fact, giving too much, not too little, credence to the idea that we are special and God may exist! But again, God may well exist, but we are not the host, we are the virus. As for not wanting to be a bug, I share your disdain! Just not your faith.
Red Sable - my case, the case of scientists almost everywhere, does not deny the existence of God! It only replaces the impossibly egocentric view that we are special because we are especially loved with the view that we are special because we are the infection that tests the whole. As my father in law, a famed professor of logic points out, I am making too much of us, as we are a speck of a species on a speck of a planet in speck of a galaxy, etc. So I am, in fact, giving too much, not too little, credence to the idea that we are special and God may exist! But again, God may well exist, but we are not the host, we are the virus. As for not wanting to be a bug, I share your disdain! Just not your faith.
by MVF on 30 August 2010 - 04:08
Red Sable -- If we are lucky, we have not stopped evolving -- you can only stop evolving if you go extinct.
And the step that got us to a monkey was exceedingly recent. If the evolutionary time frame is compared to a single day beginning at midnight, and we are now at midnight of the next day, monkeys evolved less than 22 minutes ago (11:38 pm) and apes about 14 minutes ago (11:46 pm) and we broke off from our common ancestor with those of the bonobos and chimpanzees (with whom we share well over 98% of our DNA) 7 minutes ago (11:53 pm), and we became recognizably human fewer than two minutes ago (after 11:58 pm). In my analogy, it is now midnight, and in a few seconds we will be nearly extinct (200-400 years is an instant on an evolutionary timescale). But the 100,000 humans who may survive catastrophic climate change will adapt and continue to evolve.
Again, no respectable scientist believes: (1) that God definitely does or does not exist -- the question remains open; (2) that any biblical version of our creation makes any sense except as an expression of deep seated and widespread human need in the face of fear and suffering. So far be it from me to deny God -- I only deny the self-appointed messengers who think he had a human child and thinks of us as his special project, above the rest!
And the Monkey-Scopes trial should have put to rest the monkey metaphors!
And the step that got us to a monkey was exceedingly recent. If the evolutionary time frame is compared to a single day beginning at midnight, and we are now at midnight of the next day, monkeys evolved less than 22 minutes ago (11:38 pm) and apes about 14 minutes ago (11:46 pm) and we broke off from our common ancestor with those of the bonobos and chimpanzees (with whom we share well over 98% of our DNA) 7 minutes ago (11:53 pm), and we became recognizably human fewer than two minutes ago (after 11:58 pm). In my analogy, it is now midnight, and in a few seconds we will be nearly extinct (200-400 years is an instant on an evolutionary timescale). But the 100,000 humans who may survive catastrophic climate change will adapt and continue to evolve.
Again, no respectable scientist believes: (1) that God definitely does or does not exist -- the question remains open; (2) that any biblical version of our creation makes any sense except as an expression of deep seated and widespread human need in the face of fear and suffering. So far be it from me to deny God -- I only deny the self-appointed messengers who think he had a human child and thinks of us as his special project, above the rest!
And the Monkey-Scopes trial should have put to rest the monkey metaphors!
by MVF on 30 August 2010 - 04:08
Red Sable -- Your desire to believe in God does not technically make God exist, however they way you put it is appealing. So much so that Blaise Pascal did the same centuries ago and it is called Pascal's Gamble. Believe in God, and if you're right, cool, if you're wrong, what's the harm? But if you don't believe and you're right, what do you get out of it anyway, but if you're wrong you may lose out in a big way. So Pascal, math genius, said we should believe in God because it's a logical bet to make! The problem is that modern rationality theory does not allow for us to choose to believe in something because we want it to exist, and neither can be force ourselves to believe something because that's the logical "bet" to make -- that is, and be rational at the same time. So to play Pascal's Gamble today, as you do, requires giving up the pretense of logic. That said, there were many years when I agreed with you!
by Two Moons on 30 August 2010 - 05:08
Shtal,
I simply asked you where you are from and how old you were.
Hell you could just lie.
This is how a conversation works.
I'm not your student or your teacher, we were merely observing one another.
MVF,
Your numbers may or may not be entirely accurate but the message rings true enough.
As for faith, you either have it or you don't. Most who claim faith really have none.
Yet some have true faith, I've seen it many times.
It's a good thing until it is corrupted.
Pretending doesn't work at all.
You speak of time,
I don't believe any species was meant to go on forever, evolution has many more surprises to go.
And though the planet will go on for a time, it too shall one day expire.
This kind of time is hard for man to comprehend in any real term because just as you say, it's only been the blink of an eye.
If only we could evolve fast enough to save us from ourselves.
And honestly, I do not trust god to do it for us.
I'd rather everyone took full responsibility and learned how to do it right,
rather than watching it go to hell praying for salvation.
Moons.
I simply asked you where you are from and how old you were.
Hell you could just lie.
This is how a conversation works.
I'm not your student or your teacher, we were merely observing one another.
MVF,
Your numbers may or may not be entirely accurate but the message rings true enough.
As for faith, you either have it or you don't. Most who claim faith really have none.
Yet some have true faith, I've seen it many times.
It's a good thing until it is corrupted.
Pretending doesn't work at all.
You speak of time,
I don't believe any species was meant to go on forever, evolution has many more surprises to go.
And though the planet will go on for a time, it too shall one day expire.
This kind of time is hard for man to comprehend in any real term because just as you say, it's only been the blink of an eye.
If only we could evolve fast enough to save us from ourselves.
And honestly, I do not trust god to do it for us.
I'd rather everyone took full responsibility and learned how to do it right,
rather than watching it go to hell praying for salvation.
Moons.
by Shtal on 30 August 2010 - 05:08
MVF wrote: And no life forms evolved from rocks, either.
There has to be the beginning before the beginning of life form how universe became existed and how human came to existed.
The way I understood Royal he was talking about before life took it place in the universe.
There has to be the beginning before the beginning of life form how universe became existed and how human came to existed.
The way I understood Royal he was talking about before life took it place in the universe.
by Two Moons on 30 August 2010 - 05:08
Not to change the subject, but why?
by Shtal on 30 August 2010 - 05:08
Two Moons,
I agree with you!
I agree with you!
by Two Moons on 30 August 2010 - 05:08
What is it you are agreeing too?
by Shtal on 30 August 2010 - 05:08
Two Moons,
If I understood you correctly Do not change the topic for this thread.
If I understood you correctly Do not change the topic for this thread.
by Two Moons on 30 August 2010 - 06:08
No, I meant to change the topic from my request to you.
My comment was why?
Why do you think the universe had a beginning.
And do you assume it's the only such universe that exists?
My comment was why?
Why do you think the universe had a beginning.
And do you assume it's the only such universe that exists?
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