Another dog abuse PB Fla.Sheriff s Dept - Page 2

I am so happy for my boy Reddy
He goes home at the end of each shift with his partner to a family
Chris sends me pics of Reddy at work and news articles of his accomplishments pics of him with evidence, money ,drugs boasts when he takes a "bite 'out of crime and pics of him at home with his kids hugging on him, at the Barkley golf club and pics of him sharing lunch and of the dog happy being so much more than 'equiptment'.
He frequently tells me how much he loves that dog And i love that
And my other dog that also made the cut of police k9_ Easy his partner told me he is not only the best partner he ever had , but is also his best friend

I am friends with dozens of K9 handlers that truly care for their dogs. Oftentimes, abuse isn't abuse but an uninformed opinion.
I can't remember how many times I have had clients bring extremely overweight GS puppies to my training class. I always remark, wow your puppy isn't missing any meals....some get offended, others think my lean puppy needs to put on weight, " in their opinion". I try to explain to them the problems with joints, hips, and elbows in this breed and studies that have shown that heavy puppies are more susceptible to these maladies.
Many of these owners would label my puppy as being abused in terms of weight compared to theirs, shrug!
When I was a trainer in the military, when dogs were on some training programs, they would receive half their rations each day as rewards in training( depending on how well they did) and the other half of rations at end of day. On Fridays they would receive their Friday 1/2 ration in the evening, and they would not be fed again until training on Monday morning. These dogs were healthy as can be, were under the supervision of veterinary services, with no negative effects. There are folks who I'm sure would feel this is abusive, but I trust the veterinary supervision and my first hand experience in the program far more than their emotional feelings.

Deliberately keeping dogs in starvation for SIXTY hours, once every week, IS abusive.

I really hope that the veterinary supervision (and training technique) of military dogs has evolved since then.

Coming from experience in a veterinary field. It is always dangerous for a dog (or any animal really) to go more than 30 hours without food. When a sick or healthy pet hasn't eaten in 2, 3 or 4 days things begin to happen inside the animals body that its good. The body starts to look for other places to get nutrients, fat, muscle etc. To keep a dog in a good, healthy body condition it needs to be fed on a regular DAILY schedule. I don't see how any veterinarian would find that okay.

Looking at this through the window of common sense, I have to agree with Gustav. If we are referring to a sick, skinny or debilitated dog or person than missing one or two days of meals would not be beneficial. If we are referring to a well fed, well conditioned dog or person than missing or fasting for one or two days can be very beneficial. Fasting has long been a valuable tool in nutrition and conditioning in animals and people. When we fast for a day or more our body does digest the extra fat and tissue that we have accumulated. There is a large industry marketing this as cleansing. We don't see a fat 4 minute miler or a fat 6 hour marathoner, or a fat top level high school or college wrestler and most would use fasting as a part of their training program. Most of the dogs in our world are over weight. Why, because they can be, and most are never pushed far beyond their food dish, and we like the look of a fat dog or horse more than a trim one. If everyone reading this would miss a day or two of meals each week we would probably be a lot healthier. Don't confuse not eating with not drinking. A well conditioned animal or person can miss a day or two of meals and not loose strength or endurance if they stay hydrated. We can miss weeks without food, but only days without water.
I am not saying the dog in the picture is not skinny, he looks skinny in the picture. I am saying Gustav is right, fasting has been a valuable nutritional and conditioning program.

ShirosOhana, I'm not commenting on this case at all. However, with regard to your comment about it being "dangerous" it is NATURAL for a canid to fast! Natural and healthy to employ a weekly fast day.

Just giving my experiences, I certainly don't want to engage with folks on definitions of abuse. I trust professionals and my experiences much more than people's feelings on a subject, though I respect everyone's right to their opinion.

Powerflex, can you site an example of a “4 minute miler or a 6 hour marathoner, or a top level high school or college wrestler” who uses 60 hours’ continuous fasting once every week as a part of his/her training program?

Add to that we are discussing dogs (that too not fat pets who need to urgently lose weight), not humans. The former’s digestive system doesn’t allow the food stay longer than mere hours to stay inside the body.

Sorry, but it’s NOT common sense to starve a dog for that long.

Jennie, your not commenting on THIS case, while supporting fasting a day (24 hours?) doesn’t clear your position. There are novice PP enthusiasts who read these posts from experienced posters and use these methods to train their dogs.

From a 'Training Good Practice' point of view, I'd point out that the general method of using food rewards is to weigh out the dogs daily requirement and then subtract the kibble OR THE OTHER FOOD EQUIVALENT, and use that portion as one-at-a-time rewards for the dog while training the exercise(s). The balance to be fed at the regular meal time. It is NOT, as implied in the case of this dog, to work the dog so long and hard that the only feed you give them in a given 24 hrs is the piece by piece entirety of that day's allotted meal (or less), and to do so on a continuous daily basis.

While it is true that young, very active dogs can be difficult to keep weight on; and also true that we can clearly see the outline of all the ribs on a fit, young human who is still growing and physically active, without being concerned they are in danger of imminent starvation;
nevertheless the dog pictured here is decidely too thin. Seeing the ribs is one thing; being able to play them like a Xylophone is NOT normal or okay, in any animal.

The issue of a one-day fast is a somewhat different one; if you are in Jenni's camp and think this - being historically 'natural' to the dog to have to go without 'successfully catching' its dinner one day per week - is beneficial, gives the gut a rest, teaches patience, whatever, then I am sure you normally adjust the rest of the weeks' dietary intake to ensure your dog does not end up looking like a shipwreck.

Hundmutter, what is your opinion on feeding a dog on Friday afternoon and then withholding food till Monday morning EVERY WEEK?

I know that wild canids go starving sometimes even more than that period, but then what is their life expectancy?