What non GSD problems can mask as DM? - Page 2

Oops, forgot about tick borne diseases. We don't get a lot of that here in Ontario...

CE does cause pain, but it's very difficult to tell in a strong, stoic dog. Mine never acted like he had pain. I noticed proprioception deficits first and occasional toe-dragging on concrete, as we were walking. Exams and x-rays showed nothing of interest. Then, he was biting at his thighs; that's when the geniuses said he had "food allergies." Uh, not so much. The shiniest, healthiest-looking senior black dog you've ever seen..... After that, I drove hours to a specialist I knew would listen to Dr. Mom (his nickname for me, not mine, lol) and said I think he has CE; can you confirm or deny? Yes, that's exactly what it was. Very tough dog, never showed pain, only symptoms were occasional dragging and biting at thighs (only happened a few times, and it was because they were tingly, pins and needles feeling, most likely). Had I not pushed for confirmation of what I already suspected it was, they'd have stuck w/the DM diagnosis. He did not appear in any pain. Spruell...I would be FURIOUS! Same thing happened to my pup- hospitalized in serious condition w/kidney failure and vet is looking for all sorts of genetic reasons. I talked to the vet, said to check for TBD, assumed it had been done. Nope. 2 weeks go by, they release dog, saying there's nothing they can do, still not TBD panel. New vet tests first thing and he has THREE. Those 2 weeks irreparably damaged his kidneys and he just passed away on Valentine's Day, a month and a half shy of his 6th birthday. Far as I'm concerned, the first vet killed him.

Jenni, "biting at his thighs" would have been the tip off for me that he was "feeling" something. DM dogs don't feel ANYTHING.

SS. I always think of TBD being in CT. That is why I mentioned "viral and bacterial diseases" in my second post, but was less specific because the OP had already mentioned a spinal tap.
 

I am with the owner .. the owner knows her dog better than anyone. How old is the dog and what sex?? Has the dog ever had any injuries or wounds that might be part of the problem. There is a racoon borne infectious disease in NC that can mimic DM. Many viruses and bacteria can invade a wound and run up a nerve to the spinal column where the infection causes mayhem. Poisons and environmental toxins can cause nerve damage. DM can't be cured so treat for what can be cured first. If the owner hasn't given doxycycline at rates for tick borne diseases I would start ASAP. Doxy is cheap and has a low toxicity ... if no response then no harm done. There are plenty of nerve and spinal maladies that can not be seen on X-rays and plenty that can be seen by a vet or X-ray specialist if they are told what they want to find. Viral maladies can only be found with expensive DNA type testing and a virus being present does not mean it is causing a disease. The veterinarians like to diagnose genetic disorders when they really have not a clue. There are tick borne maladies that are present in both dogs and humans which have not yet been named or diagnosed yet. Lyme has been present in humans for 5000 years but was "discovered" in 1981. The DNA test for DM does not prove anything even if positive. Plenty of dogs and humans have genetic maladies that never present or present very late in life. Approximately 30% of women with BRCA never have breast cancer and many develop breast cancer very late in life. Men can carry BRCA and few ever develop breast cancer.

bubba, ease up there. They did the spinal tap to rule out viral and bacterial infections affecting the spine. Then there was the MRI done, to catch what the X-rays can't.

Breast cancer isn't relevant to this discussion.

Once again, if nothing can be discovered wrong after going through with this protocol of tests, so sorry, but then, only time will tell.

Due to global warming, we are starting to see more ticks in Ontario, but it's still not the first thing that comes to mind when a dog is having neuro issues. The New England states have a HUGE deer population, so they see more of it. I like to think our problem isn't quite so bad because we haven't killed off all our wolves yet, so fewer deer....

Still last year was HORRIBLE for ticks in my area!

Here's a map showing known human cases of lyme disease in my area: http://www.straight.com/news/738356/lyme-disease-surges-north-canada-moves-out-denial

BTW, still trying to figure out what CE is...

Holding up while the vet spent a thousand dollars of my money to satisfy his or her curiousity has cost me and my dogs dearly.  Try something and as was stated it is a process of elemination.  Raccoon roundworm can cause neurological symptoms once the nematodes migrate out of the GI tract and they are not controlled outside the GI tract by normal worming.  A spinal tap will not find localized infections nor will it find nerve damage caused by a parasite.

http://www.raccoonworld.com/raccoonroundworm.html

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1621&aid=721

Not to minimize the risk, but in many states raccoons are being systematically euthanized because of the panic over perceived danger of transmission of the raccoon roundworm to humans as a result of two documented cases (one a fatality) to date, including a case in 1998 where a child in Pacific Grove, California was infected by eating bark on firewood that had been contaminated by raccoon feces. Over 177 local wild raccoons were systematically executed before a lawsuit by the City's concerned citizens brought the killings to a halt. Eradication of raccoons will not prevent the very rare disease visceral larva migrans in humans. However, education and some common sense might.

Fewer than 25 cases of Baylisascaris disease have been documented in the United States. However, it is possible that some cases are incorrectly diagnosed as other infections or go undiagnosed. Cases that are diagnosed tend to be severe.

Cases have been reported in California, Illinois, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New York, Oregon, and Pennsylvania. As of 2012, there were 16 published human neurological cases in the US; six of the infected persons died.  The diagnosis is hit or miss so only those cases where a human life is in peril tend to get a correct diagnosis.  Dogs are about 10,000 times more likely to put soil or an object infested with raccoon feces in their mouth than a human and most human cases are in children who put dirty fingers in their mouth.

Beetree, I don't know what you mean. Of course he was feeling something. His legs tingled. My dog never had DM. :/ But he never appeared to be in any pain. Hence, the "DM & food allergies" utter b.s. diagnosis.

Don't forget Fungus. In California we have many cases of Valley fever, that is a fungus that causes many different symptoms and types of issues. If it is a fungus, antibiotics and immune suppression will make it worse.

https://www.vfce.arizona.edu/valleyfeverinpets/vfid-symp.aspx ( read beyond common symptoms)

I remember one of the 'sales pitches' for a dog food was that it was not made from [lamb or beef] products which where linked to mad cow's disease.. Link below talks about that.. along with Distemper in dogs that have already been vaccinated.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/nervous_system/diseases_of_the_spinal_column_and_cord/inflammatory_and_infectious_diseases_of_the_spinal_column_and_cord.html

There is also 'wobbles' syndrome from nutritional issues (genetic or otherwise) and all the usual suspects..

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/nervous_system/diseases_of_the_spinal_column_and_cord/degenerative_diseases_of_the_spinal_column_and_cord.html

Aren't we getting away from those diseases whose symptoms
"can mask as DM" ?