NexGard (Afoxolaner) Toxicity, Veterinarians and $$$$ - Page 2

A lot of these once a month oral products are just as effective at 1/2 dosage if the dosing interval is reduced.  I use spinosad at 1/2 the label dosage rate which gives 3 weeks of flea control based on research results.  The full rate of spinosad gives a full month or more of flea control.  Obviously giving a 1/2 dose treatment every 3 weeks is better for the dog but marketing slime balls like to say a full month of flea control.  I also use pyrethroid pour ons or spot ons (full rate) in rotation with spinosad which also gives some tick control as well.  One of the bedrock principles of pest management is to rotate the controls or active ingredients to minimize the build up of pesticide resistance.  Different AI's with different modes of action against the pests reduces resistance selection.  Mechanical controls like combing or vacuuming, training field rotation, DE, or picking off the pests from plants or animals by hand helps delay resistance although the pests can even develop resistance through selection to these controls. In Asian rice fields there exists several species of grass weeds which mimic the appearance of the rice plant after a few thousand years of hand weeding rice fields for grass weeds based on weed appearance.  If you do the same thing very long mother nature will find a way to beat you.  I don't have any data for Nexgard but I would be surprised if it is any different than other oral products with regard to rate reduction.  It is perfectly legal to use less than the labeled rate from the regulatory aspect.  From the regulatory aspect it is perfectly legal to give any AI labeled for use for your dog, cat, sheep, cotton, tomatoes, etc. so long as you do not exceed the maximum registered rate of AI per application, season, growth stage, etc..  In the case of prescription only products given by the doctor or a veterinarian such as Proheart 6 you will not usually have the opportunity to reduce the dosage or treatment interval as you have no access to the product itself.  In the case of NexGard it is prescription but not administered always in the veterinarians office so you can do what you want in your own home or kennel.  

Jmoore,  Growing up I had an old farm collie and a GSD.  The collie was extremely allergic to ticks. This was back in the days before flea and tick collars or spot on meds. The two dogs would go thu the same patch of woods and Barli the gsd would come back with maybe 3 ticks while Koola the colie would have a couple doz on her.

Since I was the youngest it was my job every night to sit and go over the dogs for ticks and take them off. Today it's a whole lot easier they have these little tick puller things. We simply used  rubbing alcohol - makes them pull the head out, sometimes a heated needle if the bugger was really stubborn pulled them off with a bit of tissue and burned them in the ashtray ( wait do people even know what an ashtray is these days?) The pop tells you they are history. The trick is to make sure you get the head out.

This was in New England so we only had the problem a couple months of the year so all in all it was not onerous to do this. You get good at it and can tell just by the touch of your fingers if there is one to be taken off. Back there high grass and low dense bushes were the problem - if we had had fenced yards probably wouldn't have needed to do anything since they got them going thru the woods. The interesting part is out here in CA they lurk in trees not the grass plus I found they go to different spots on the body than the ones in NE. Favorite body locations in NE were ears and underarms.

If you have a really heavy infestation and can't face the daily kill off you might want to check into the tick collars. Slightly less invasive than the newer drugs. If you do  this air the collar in the sun for 2-3 days b4 putting it on the dog especially old or young ones. Reduces toxcity but still works.

I will continue the Heartgard during the warm season.  He has been having a few allergies also,,,I'm thinking it might be chicken, just not positive yet.  I'm feeding him Blue Buffalo and switching the protein with each bag.  Also putting a hint of BB canned food on top.... I've been using The Missing Link hip, joint, and coat also daily.  I cut it out 2 days ago until I figure out what is causing his allergy.  Some of the ingredients in The Missing Link I dont care for,  I will be getting his hips and elbows scanned in a couple months and I might request an allergy test also.  Other than that, he looks and acts great,  23.5" at top  of his withers and 75 lbs.  

I'm thinking about switching his kibble to Natures Logic.  It's pricy, but I would rather the extra money for the best quality kibvle.  would like to find something of better quality than The Missing Link, so if you have any suggestions def let me know,   I would love to feed raw, and I plan too once he is fully grown.  I'm not confident enough to do it,  need to do more research. 

thanks for all the help....I really appreciate it

J Nature's logic is a good food. BB never had enough fat in it for my dogs. Missing Link relies on flax seed for it's omegas and dogs don't process flax seed plus many ae allergic to it. Plain old costco fish oil works better.

There was a good thread in April that discussed skin issues. I'll try to find the link and post it for you.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=787562-constantly-itchyskin-allergies&pagen=2#788302

You could start him on raw for one of his meals a day. Can make a huge difference on skin issues. It allowed my Nemo ( pituitary dwarf) to grow a fully normal coat for the first time in his life.

I believe a study alert came out a few months ago tht the new Tri Flexis is responsible for about 600 deaths in USA .???

 

http://www.theinternetpetvet.com/is-trifexis-killing-dogs-fda-records-340-dog-deaths-associated-with-trifexis/

Was told this last week by two dog owners who train in Tyler.? NOT sure but several friends are having issues with 7 mo, old pups that are having hair loss and scratching after starting one of the applications that takes care of 6 flea and worm infestations..Too many chemicals in my opinion on a dog every 30 days...poor liver...Use DE and spray yard and keep pet off of it for three days ....I use natural preventatives as much as possible.

DE food grade only..will kill worms in dogs intestine as it goes the route to expel...pinch in bowl of dogs food and has mineral content that is beneficial..Humans take DE for mineral and vitamin content...

YR

 

Thanks for the info Yellowrose.  Flax seed is one of my concerns with Missing Link I have.  I just started a few days ago giving him some raw with his meals.  I had some beef baby back ribs left over from the cow I got butchered and I've been feeding him one daily.  

My former GSD had severe HD at only 8 months of age.  Then she got Lymphoma at 4.5 years old and had to be put down,    So I'm extremely gun shy regarding the hips and joints.  That's why I was giving Bane (Current GSD) The Missing Link.  

On top of his regular food, what supplements are you guys/ladies using for your GSD?   I will be going to Oklahoma City today and I will pick up some supplements while Im there.  I just don't know which quality supplements to purchase.  

Anyone mind making me a short shopping list on the the high quality supplements?  Im going to purchase some Natures  Logic also, unless there is a kibble that is better.  Thanks for everything and for waking me up regarding the NexGard.  

 

 

I've also used invermectin sheep drench cut with propylene glycol for many years; never any heartworms or side effects that could have been attributed to its use. Recently I began to dose it every other month instead of monthly and if I didn't live in FL I'd go with every 3 months.

My big concern here is fleas; we've had no killing frosts for 3, 4  winters. Ticks aren't a problem for me, I just pick them off and put them in a jar of alcohol. I've only found 2 or 3 on my dogs in 3 years. The thing with flea preventative is  you need to switch pesticides sooner or later since the fleas develop a resistance to the current one.

I'm not sure why anyone would pay the price for Heart Guard, etc when ivermectin drench is so cheap and easy to dilute. You can also buy it already cut with glycol http://www.heartwormprevention.com/  There are instructions on the net how to cut it yourself or how to dose it without it's being cut.

I do not supplement a healthy dog that is eating a good quality dog food unless it has specific needs or is a senior. Now and then I might add a few scraps to the food, but that's it.

FYI only:

I use Sentry Natural Defense.  The only downside is that the dogs do not like the smell and spend an hour trying to rub it off.  So far, seems to work well.  I do not have a high issue with ticks though.

Ingredients: Peppermint, cinnamon, lemon grass, clove, thyme oils, vanillin, Isopropyl Myrstate.

This covers ticks, fleas, and mosquitoes.

I rotate this with Advantage Multi (AM), as AM does not cover ticks and I could not find anything that only covered ticks.  For me, as AM is a chemical, I wanted something that did not have chemicals, but would still work.

It is getting harder to find and I do not know why.  If you have any info on this product, Sentry Natural Defense, please post.

Interesting about Tri Flexis. I have heard about many issues with this, yet many vets are still pushing it, especially the humane society type clinics.

My vet does not even suggest it. She still like to push drugs and chemicals, but she is figuring out that I have no problem saying "no" and that I will ask lots of questions before I consider giving something to my pets.