raw diet fed at same time as kibble - Page 2

Bob-O I have always liked the thoughtful remarks of yours. Please I want your opinion on my observations.

Sumo, I have fed high-quality dry kibble and had large litters as well as normal litters, but I do see where certain bitches might have their fertility affected by the type of food ingested. Look at it this way; a wild dog would eat rotting animal carcasses and a few small wild animals, and would leave vegetables and legumes alone unless it was very hungry. So that indicates that a diet such as a properly-developed raw diet would be close to what a dog would naturally eat. There is no doubt that most premium dog kibble is formulated to produce shiny, rich coats and soft skin, and perhaps little else. I feed the Royal Canin Maxi GSD-24 to all of the dogs, unless it is a bitch that I plan to breed soon. For that bitch, I switch her to a large-breed puppy food for a couple of months before breeding, and try to increase her weight from three (3) to five (5) pounds. Does this really do anything useful; or is it just superstition on my part? I can't say, but the litters are of normal to large size and healthy. As far as linebreeding/inbreeding is concerned, I would think that some bad ancestral traits would be emphasized as well as the good ones, and that is just the luck of the draw so to speak. One would think that a very fertile dam would pass this quality on to her female puppies to some degree, but of course I have no scientific data that will support this idea. I do think that the proper nutrition of bitches before, during, and after conception is paramount for the success of the litter, and seem to have decent results with what I do. But, I do not produce very many puppies, so it may just be good luck on my part. I am sure that other environmental factors affect this, such as quality of water, etc. but again have no hard evidence. Not much of an answer to your questions, but the best that I can do. Regards, Bob-O

I feed a twice baked kibble (National) plus raw together to my dogs once a day - I have for years. Guess we are very lucky - my litter sizes are large and the dogs look great.

There are too many variables to ever come to a conclusion that fits every dog or situation. In my above post, I just offered the according to hoyle views of each side between raw and kibble. I have fed a dog I was working, kibble with rice. 20 hours later the dog threw up the rice and it came out in the same form it went in. We feed mostly raw as we run our own beef and its very economical for us to use the raw. A couple weeks ago I placed a dog with a couple. I havent done this in 15yrs, but it seemed they were sincere. Too make a long story short, after a few days the dog was returned to me. Said dog was back on raw for a couple days, when I noticed he threw up and it was whole kernels of some type of very cheap, corn based kibble. This gereric kibble had been inside him for days and hadnt digested a bit. On the other hand, there are times that our dogs(specially the older ones) will refuse a lean cut of beef. When this happens we feed a high grade kibble and they go crazy over it. Then after 2 or 3 days, they prefer the raw again.

We can't even digest corn, why people want to put it in dog food, I will never understand??? I have never fed just raw, I'm afraid of not getting the dogs everything they need. I feel the same about kibble, it can't have what fresh meat has. I fed both, to one of my females and her litter. Never had a sick dog from combining raw and dog food. I still give raw every once in awhile to everybody. Dogs go nuts for it and why shouldn't I give them something other than the same ol' same ol'?

Coming to the observations made by Sumo i would like raise some doubts- 1)The preservatives in the dog food which helps it to maintain fresh for more than a year,Is it harmful to Dogs. 2)Are the manufactures using hormones/steroids in the Dog foods to improve the condition of the dogs which in turn leads to problems like fertility.

Would a combination of say something like Timberwolf organics and Royal Canin be considered a mix of "kibble and raw"...???There are so many so called good dog foods out there that its mind boggling to say the least...What about Dick Van Pattens Natural Balance Ultra Premium, or say Natures Menu for dogs...???Only looking for the best possible food to give the dog...I know we've been down this road but there do seem to be a lot of good responses from most of you... Thanks, Rob

I have fed the frozen D v Pattens raw, VERY expensive but when my pregnant bitch wouldn't eat, I tried anything and everything. Was just looking at the Ultra Premium kibble last night, thinking to myself..."is this the next best thing to raw"? I tried to compair ingredients with the RC GSD but the store was out of the GSD formula and it was more expensive if I remember correctly. I feed Diamond chicken and rice to my dogs. My pups stools weren't what I would have liked, so switched the pups back to Nutro Naturals Chicken and Oatmeal. 2 weeks later, already looking better but if not perfection at the end of the bag, going to try something else for my puppy. I don't see Timber Wolf around and am torn between a few differnt brands of the best kibble. DvPattens UP, RC's GSD formula, and Innova, possibly California Naturals. ANybody feed any of these with perfect stool results?

I am currently whelping a litter of pups and I am feeding raw and EVO dry at the same time. As decoyD said, they do get tired of raw sometimes. I am amazed at it - as yesterday I bought her a rack of beef ribs and she looked at it and later went back to chew - but then ate up the EVO dry. The pups are fat and happy and gorgeous and content. The mother gets everything from ground beef/chicken breasts bone-in, legs and thighs, chicken livers, cottage cheese, plain yogurt, coconut oil along with the EVO, but I noticed that EVO has alot of those things in already, too. It's been "specially designed to provide all the key nutritional benefits received from the feeding of raw food diets but with the benefits of 21st Century nutritional research. Innova EVO formula is based on ground chicken & turkey meat, bones, fat, cartilage and connective tissue. It includes whole, raw fruits and vegetables which contain health promoting phytochemicals and micronutrients. Low Carb, Hi-Protein and Grain Free." Moisture is 10%, Protein is 42%, Fat 22%, Fiber 2.5%. Calories are 537 kCals per cup. They say "Innova EVO...What to feed when you can't feed raw", but I do both. Now my show GSD loves raw, but he calls ralph every time I try to feed it to him. So I feed him just dry. Honestly, I let the dog decide. And she is just as indecisive as some of us that don't know 100% what to do regarding dogfood. I think her instincts just tell her what she needs and she eats when she wants it..... ...course...then again, she eats her own poop if I don't get to it first! LOL

4pack, If Timberwolf was available would you use it...???