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by beetree on 08 July 2013 - 11:07
Are you really that clueless? And you think the rest of us are as well?
by Sunsilver on 08 July 2013 - 12:07
Miamidade, it amazes me that you can come on here and spout criticism of the posters without even knowing us. Unless you post under another screen name, or lurk without posting, you know NOTHING about the posters on this board!
I am now on rescue GSD #4, and have donated money to several of the rescues on this board. Marjorie has a website dedicated to health issues in the GSd breed, where people can post information about their dogs. Many, many other people on the board have helped with the rescue of dogs, either providing transportation, fostering, money or volunteering to adopt dogs.
That was a horrible thing that happened to that dog, I agree, but I can't say the owner of the dog was blameless. Why didn't he make sure the dog was secure in his vehicle?
And re. the reason for his arrest: I am not going to judge because I don't know the whole situation. The police were investigating a burglary. Obviously they are not popular with the community. Were they being harassed? There are some communities here in Ontario where the drug culture rules, and officers making perfectly legitimate arrests of drug dealers will be yelled at and harassed. On a recent drug raid in Toronto, one lady screamed at the officers, "You're taking our living away!"
If the community is that riddled with drugs and crime, I'm sure the officers must even fear for their lives when they are trying to make arrests.
I am now on rescue GSD #4, and have donated money to several of the rescues on this board. Marjorie has a website dedicated to health issues in the GSd breed, where people can post information about their dogs. Many, many other people on the board have helped with the rescue of dogs, either providing transportation, fostering, money or volunteering to adopt dogs.
That was a horrible thing that happened to that dog, I agree, but I can't say the owner of the dog was blameless. Why didn't he make sure the dog was secure in his vehicle?
And re. the reason for his arrest: I am not going to judge because I don't know the whole situation. The police were investigating a burglary. Obviously they are not popular with the community. Were they being harassed? There are some communities here in Ontario where the drug culture rules, and officers making perfectly legitimate arrests of drug dealers will be yelled at and harassed. On a recent drug raid in Toronto, one lady screamed at the officers, "You're taking our living away!"
If the community is that riddled with drugs and crime, I'm sure the officers must even fear for their lives when they are trying to make arrests.
by Western Rider on 08 July 2013 - 12:07
I too have been waiting to see who would post this.
Now as an Admin I would like all to not respond to this post for a while and let the OP answer some questions starting with
What would you have done to stop this 80 pound plus dog from hurting you or your fellow officers.
If you cant offer some positive points why other than to make yourself the Topic is your point to post this.
Now as an Admin I would like all to not respond to this post for a while and let the OP answer some questions starting with
What would you have done to stop this 80 pound plus dog from hurting you or your fellow officers.
If you cant offer some positive points why other than to make yourself the Topic is your point to post this.
by zdog on 08 July 2013 - 12:07
Yes ultimately, if the guy wasn't there with his dog, there wouldn't have been any opportunity for his dog to die. in an absolute world that is true. that said, I hope Karma comes back a thousand fold on those cops. There was nothing in that situation to warrant what they did. I usually side with the cops, but I think they deserve to have some horrible things happen to them after this. They didn't want to calm things down, they wanted to amp them up. It's why the guy they supposedly should "fear" or something was ignored for quite a long time and not until he went to leave they decided to make an issue out of it and they then chose to escalate things.
Even at that point, they should have realized they should contain the situation. I noticed it immediately, even the bystanders video taping as well, noticed the dog in the car with the windows down. you'd think a professional with training could have assessed the situation and saw a potential for danger there. But they didn't. They were too intent on making a point with this guy for not doing anything other than being annoying. There were a thousand different ways they could have handled this, and every one of them would have ended better than this one. Cuff and up against a pole buddy, for playing loud music and walking a large dog pffftttttttt. nice charges
Apparently there is some back story as well. This guy who's dog was shot has a complaint filed against an officer involved in the shooting for breaking his ribs previously. This officer was also responsible for the city paying out a million dollar settlement for police brutality as well. should make you at least give pause as the the how and why this went down the way it did.
Even at that point, they should have realized they should contain the situation. I noticed it immediately, even the bystanders video taping as well, noticed the dog in the car with the windows down. you'd think a professional with training could have assessed the situation and saw a potential for danger there. But they didn't. They were too intent on making a point with this guy for not doing anything other than being annoying. There were a thousand different ways they could have handled this, and every one of them would have ended better than this one. Cuff and up against a pole buddy, for playing loud music and walking a large dog pffftttttttt. nice charges
Apparently there is some back story as well. This guy who's dog was shot has a complaint filed against an officer involved in the shooting for breaking his ribs previously. This officer was also responsible for the city paying out a million dollar settlement for police brutality as well. should make you at least give pause as the the how and why this went down the way it did.
by Western Rider on 08 July 2013 - 12:07
Zdog and others Please This site should be about learning and the OP posted this topic/video.
Let him put forth his solution to how to keep this dog from harming anyone in the split seconds that were available.
I mean really why else did he post this
Let him put forth his solution to how to keep this dog from harming anyone in the split seconds that were available.
I mean really why else did he post this
by zdog on 08 July 2013 - 12:07
please what? are only OP's supposed to be allowed to respond? Won't make for a very interesting message board.
At the point the cops shot the dog, I don't find them at fault. It's absolutely everything up to that point that I do.
If the guy was an issue, he should have been dealt with immediately. he wasn't. He wasn't anything more than present and annoying. He didn't cross their perimeter, he didn't confront them, he didn't aggress towards them.
Oh, he had his music loud? Ok, write him a fucking ticket and move on. When was the last time you were handcuffed while they wrote you out a speeding ticket? I got a noise violation in college, you think they cuffed us? Bullshit. They confronted and cuffed him because there is a backstory and they wanted this. They wanted to flex their cop muscle and show this guy they could deal with him. I don't think they intended on shooting his dog, but they most certainly wanted to show him they were the cops and he wasn't.
Early on even with the dog out they could have said, "sir, contain your dog your vehicle we have some questions for you"
At the point after he loads his dog to leave and they decide to do what cops aren't supposed to do and that is escalate a non confrontational situation and make an issue out of something. EVEN THEN, they could have said, "sir, please roll up your windows we need to speak with you for a second". He was obviously compliant, he shut the door, they told him to turn around and he did. I saw nothing in that video to show he wouldn't have been anything more than compliant. I saw nothing in that video that showed those particular officers acting appropriately either.
This video has been posted all over the internet, how else did the rest of you see it and just "wait for it to be posted here"? what's the big deal who posted it. So the OP might be an idiot and if that truly is there training in the link posted, I'd be embarrassed if that was my training resulted in. But still, why does it matter?
At the point the cops shot the dog, I don't find them at fault. It's absolutely everything up to that point that I do.
If the guy was an issue, he should have been dealt with immediately. he wasn't. He wasn't anything more than present and annoying. He didn't cross their perimeter, he didn't confront them, he didn't aggress towards them.
Oh, he had his music loud? Ok, write him a fucking ticket and move on. When was the last time you were handcuffed while they wrote you out a speeding ticket? I got a noise violation in college, you think they cuffed us? Bullshit. They confronted and cuffed him because there is a backstory and they wanted this. They wanted to flex their cop muscle and show this guy they could deal with him. I don't think they intended on shooting his dog, but they most certainly wanted to show him they were the cops and he wasn't.
Early on even with the dog out they could have said, "sir, contain your dog your vehicle we have some questions for you"
At the point after he loads his dog to leave and they decide to do what cops aren't supposed to do and that is escalate a non confrontational situation and make an issue out of something. EVEN THEN, they could have said, "sir, please roll up your windows we need to speak with you for a second". He was obviously compliant, he shut the door, they told him to turn around and he did. I saw nothing in that video to show he wouldn't have been anything more than compliant. I saw nothing in that video that showed those particular officers acting appropriately either.
This video has been posted all over the internet, how else did the rest of you see it and just "wait for it to be posted here"? what's the big deal who posted it. So the OP might be an idiot and if that truly is there training in the link posted, I'd be embarrassed if that was my training resulted in. But still, why does it matter?
by EuroShepherd on 08 July 2013 - 14:07
Having seen miamidade's ads for dogs on here, my opinion of them was neutral (and not impressed.) However, now my opinion is negative, given the way they attacked others on this thread for disagreeing with them. Very poor professionalism, bad for business image.
As for the the situation which caused this dog's death, a poor situation all the way around with mistakes made on both sides. However the officer who killed the dog was within his rights to do so because the dog did attempt to bite.
I had already discussed, in-depth, this video last week with a very close friend who is a LEO K9 handler, I'll put here what our joint conclusion was.
A. the two officers did not have a good or legal reason (that can be seen from the video) to detain/arrest the dog owner.
B. the dog owner should have secured his dog in the car, it was very irresponsible to put a dog in the vehicle with windows down far enough that it could even get it's head thru, much less it's entire body. Also, due to the dog's size it really should have had other means of securing inside the vehicle besides just doors/windows, rottweilers and other large similarly built breeds are capable of busting out windows of a vehicle when agitated.
C. to experienced dog people, it's clear the dog doesn't know how to bite, it's confused and upset and not sure how to protect it's owner. To people not familiar with dog behavior and bite training, all they see is a dog trying to attack. It is unknown what the dog would do if it actually did manage to grip something in a bite, let go? crush? shake? move to a more vulnerable area of the body? take cheap-shot rip nips? would it be frightened of what it did and back off? would it become more confident and enraged and continue? no way to tell til it actually happens, not going to know 1 second before...
D. the third officer likely did not know why the first two officers were detaining the dog owner, he made two attempts to catch the dog's leash/collar before shooting the dog after it's second attempt to bite him. the officer was in his rights and did what he was trained to do when threatened with bodily harm. even a small bite in just the wrong place could have left the officer with permanent damage and potential loss of something (finger, privates, nerve/ligament/tendon damage, etc.)
I would blame the first two officers for presumably arresting the dog owner without a good legal reason.
I would blame the dog owner for not making sure his dog was secured.
I would not blame the dog for attempting to protect it's owner.
I would NOT blame the 3rd officer for shooting the dog after it's second attempt to bite.
As for the the situation which caused this dog's death, a poor situation all the way around with mistakes made on both sides. However the officer who killed the dog was within his rights to do so because the dog did attempt to bite.
I had already discussed, in-depth, this video last week with a very close friend who is a LEO K9 handler, I'll put here what our joint conclusion was.
A. the two officers did not have a good or legal reason (that can be seen from the video) to detain/arrest the dog owner.
B. the dog owner should have secured his dog in the car, it was very irresponsible to put a dog in the vehicle with windows down far enough that it could even get it's head thru, much less it's entire body. Also, due to the dog's size it really should have had other means of securing inside the vehicle besides just doors/windows, rottweilers and other large similarly built breeds are capable of busting out windows of a vehicle when agitated.
C. to experienced dog people, it's clear the dog doesn't know how to bite, it's confused and upset and not sure how to protect it's owner. To people not familiar with dog behavior and bite training, all they see is a dog trying to attack. It is unknown what the dog would do if it actually did manage to grip something in a bite, let go? crush? shake? move to a more vulnerable area of the body? take cheap-shot rip nips? would it be frightened of what it did and back off? would it become more confident and enraged and continue? no way to tell til it actually happens, not going to know 1 second before...
D. the third officer likely did not know why the first two officers were detaining the dog owner, he made two attempts to catch the dog's leash/collar before shooting the dog after it's second attempt to bite him. the officer was in his rights and did what he was trained to do when threatened with bodily harm. even a small bite in just the wrong place could have left the officer with permanent damage and potential loss of something (finger, privates, nerve/ligament/tendon damage, etc.)
I would blame the first two officers for presumably arresting the dog owner without a good legal reason.
I would blame the dog owner for not making sure his dog was secured.
I would not blame the dog for attempting to protect it's owner.
I would NOT blame the 3rd officer for shooting the dog after it's second attempt to bite.
by Western Rider on 08 July 2013 - 15:07
Zdog it is not that I don't want anyone else to respond it is that I want the topic that the OP was trying for He posted a video that shows only the dog being shot then goes off on other things. I just want the video that is the shooting of the dog to be the topic I agree with your statement
please what? are only OP's supposed to be allowed to respond? Won't make for a very interesting message board.
At the point the cops shot the dog, I don't find them at fault.
There are so many on this board that will tell you that there was some other choice than shoot the dog. The Op is one and I would like to know what could have been done in the few seconds that were available for a chouice.
I don't want this to be a bash fest just WHAT OTHERCHOICES THERE WERE IN THE 3 SECONDS AVAILABLE.
Everyone your ideas are welcome stay on topic please
please what? are only OP's supposed to be allowed to respond? Won't make for a very interesting message board.
At the point the cops shot the dog, I don't find them at fault.
There are so many on this board that will tell you that there was some other choice than shoot the dog. The Op is one and I would like to know what could have been done in the few seconds that were available for a chouice.
I don't want this to be a bash fest just WHAT OTHERCHOICES THERE WERE IN THE 3 SECONDS AVAILABLE.
Everyone your ideas are welcome stay on topic please
by zdog on 08 July 2013 - 15:07
there was a lot more than 3 seconds. The original video I saw as about 8 minutes long, most of it of this guy just walking back and forth videotaping with his cell phone. About the last 1:30 is where the cops decided to escalate this situation.
by Blitzen on 08 July 2013 - 15:07
Again, many things were wrong with this situation and a lot of blame to go around.
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