Leaving Multiple Dogs Unsupervised - Page 2

This is what dog kennels and crates were made for.  I have a fenced yard and kennels and crates and  two spays age 5 and 2.  They are NEVER out alone together w/o me being there.  IF I have to have dogs out and I am in the house, one is in a kennel run and the other is loose or both are in kennel runs. 

When I leave the house, both are either in crates or in outdoor kennel runs.  No one is left loose in the house (I have cats too.. so this keeps  them safe too). 

If I go in another room and close the door (like in the office), one or both come with me or they are crated and so forth. 

Yes, they play but only when I am there.  If it gets over the top, I have them both take a break and Lie down.. then I release them and they can play.  If it looks like it is going past a place I am comfortable, I separate them (why there are kennel runs). 

Two females can suddenly have an 'issue.'  I don't want a bitch fight.  I don't want a maimed or dead dog. 

Prevention is 9/10ths of the cure. 

Shilohs are known for their gentle natures. At the kennel that whelped my friend's male, two of the bitches somehow managed to get out of their kennels and go at each other. I think maybe an inexperienced person was looking after the kennel that day, or it wouldn't have happened.

One of the females had her belly ripped open, and it cost around $3,000 to put her back together. She was lucky she wasn't killed.

I have a 10 year old male and a 5 year old female GSD. The female gets along with EVERYONE and has never been in a fight, so I have no problem leaving them alone together.

Every so often, the old guy lets her know he's still boss. Well, at least HE thinks he is...

As a kennel  owner, I am amazed and appalled at the popularity of the 'cage free' boarding facilites that seem to be springing up everywhere. I guess it saves them big money, not having to invest in fences and runs. Now and then, I get people who have boarded at these facilities. One couple brought in their miniature daschund, which now had a 3" long scar on its back as a result of being attacked by another dog.

People are just SO clueless. They think boarding their dog is like sending their kids off to summer camp. And Cesar Millan sure doesn't help when it comes to this!

I wonder how many fights HE has to break up between his pack members. One of the employees at one of these kennels did a bit of grooming for me. She said the employees are supposed to carry a stick with them at all times, and use it to break up fights. I didn't find out exactly HOW they were supposed to use it. I wonder if was the same idea as the 'break stick' that pitbull owners use to pry open a dog's mouth when it won't let go of another dog.

I wouldn't want to have to do that as part of my job. And I'd never DREAM of boarding my dog at such a place!

I will beat a dead horse and say it once more...I hope everyone who thinks their 3+ dogs are "safe" together never have to come home to one or more dead dogs. It happens SUDDENLY AND WITHOUT "WARNING" or at least warning that would be noticeable to the average owner. It's kidding yourself to think it can't/won't happen to you/with your dogs. And the dogs pay the price. 

Sunsilver, good post. Especially the part about the Shilohs- if they can kill each other, any dog can. And they do. More often than we'd care to think about. :-(  A good friend of mine witnessed it as he was running through a park. behind a fenced yard w/3 dogs that had all lived together their entire lives. Well, this day, 2 decided they'd rather be alone together, so they killed the 3rd as he tried to separate them and get the owner's attention. Lovely experience. Imagine if it were your own and you came home to that. Why anyone would risk it is beyond my comprehension. 

Back when I worked at the lab and cavalier show kennel we had fights between dogs...

All of the dogs were kennelled 2 to a run, never had any dog fights from that.  But, every day we would  rotate groups of dogs out to a 3 acre fenced "dog pasture" and occassionally nasty dog fights would occur that needed to be dealt with (note: cattle prod.)  If it was males that got into a fight, well they never hurt each other, just made a huge racket.  But if it was the bitches that got into a fight then we knew someone would be hurt.   Years before I worked there, some bitches got into a fight and one was killed.   We're talking calm, sedate English show-bred Labrador Retrievers.  
As for the cavaliers, I never, ever, ever once saw the female cavaliers get into a fight.  But occassionally the males would, never hurt each other though.  The cavaliers were crated individually at night inside the house, but they would spend all day outside together in one large group (unless female was in season and males needed to be kept away from them.) 

I have a friend who raises show Yorkies, her 3.5 lb male yorkie killed his own 4yr old sire who weighed 6 ounces less when he was only 16 months old. 

All 5 of the GSDs in our household get along very well, but I have a 6th GSD, Nadia, who stays at a friend's farm now because I don't trust her with other dogs.  She'll instigate a fight with anyone, even her playing is extremely rough.  She injured my oldest male's eyes and now he only has partial vision :(

GSDguy, I sure hope you never learn the hard way how wrong you are with that thinking. Everyone I know who had a problem thought that until they came home to a dead dog.  

Jenni I know my dogs.....You don't.... So I'm naive and inexperienced? I highly doubt that....In fact, I know I'm not.   When I raise a dog with my pack, for one they are taught (by me) to ignore the older dogs. I say that as in, many young dogs try to act submissive to the older ones, but do so in a very excited way that annoys the older dog.  Older dog growls, the pup gets more submissive but annoying (constantly licking at the adults face)...and then comes the bite.  I teach the younger dog not to do that, but to engage with me, or I just verbally command the pup to "leave it" or "that's enough".....  My males don't pay attention to each other, but they do walk together, eat side by side, etc.  You also need to consider most of my dogs are Huskies....Huskies are more pack oriented than your average German Shepherd.  It is not that hard for male Huskies to live with each other compared to some other breeds.  I know many, MANY Husky owners who leave their males or females together all the time.  How many Huskies have you owned Jenni?

And Jenni, don't get me wrong, I'm referring more so to my Huskies. I don't leave Auggie alone with them for multiple reasons. His bond is to be almost completely with me. He has time where he plays with Sierra, but he does nothing with the males as they have nothing to do with him when they're out.  I "would not" leave multiple Shepherds together.  Hope that clears up what I meant :)  And I didn't mean to sound so "cocky" as that probably came across in my first comment.

Hey Jenni, I sent you a pm, check that as well when you read what I've said in that other message.

It does depend a lot on the breed, and the individual dogs. Owners need to become very, very good at reading body language to avert trouble before it starts. I know people who have run large groups of shepherds together without a problem, but they knew all the dogs very well. I also know of a situation where 3 dogs from the same litter, one female and two males, all of them neutered, were housed together for many years. As one of the males got older, the other male attacked him and injured him. I guess the attacker sensed the dog was weakening due to age, and took advantage of it to become the alpha.

For your dogs' sake, I sure hope you're right and everyone with 20-30+ years of experience who has had this happen simply doesn't know what they're talking about. Your dogs are not my problem. You're in charge of their safety, not me. With any luck, it won't happen. I"ve never had it happen. But why chance it? When I make a decision, I weigh both the likelihood and the worst case scenario. When the worst case scenario is death of an animal, then I don't care if the odds are less than one in one million; it's simply not worth the risk to me. Do as you wish with your own dogs. I frankly don't care. You will be the one regretting it when it happens to you; not me. I'll simply feel sad that INexperience got the best of you (and YES, you are inexperienced, as this hasn't happened to you and naive because you believe it won't)- like the 1000 hour pilot- and your dogs paid the price. 

I'm sure this was a fluke, but a breeder friend of mine just lost 2 dogs and had to put down her other dog who killed them. they'd only lived together for 7 years and she's only been training and breeding for 19 years...I guess this must have happened because she didn't know what she was doing and forgot to leave the note telling them not to kill each other while she was gone, not because they're dogs and she wasn't there to intervene.

Oh, and I've owned 2 Huskies and fostered  half dozen others. Not my cup of tea. Not sure why you think I'm talking about GSDs, either, especially with the multiple examples given by other posters on many other breeds. This is a dog thing, and a LOGICAL RISK PREVENTION thing- not a breed thing. But carry on...don't let me rain on your parade.