Repeat Breeding goes Hay-Wire - Page 2

Spider bite could be a possibility as I did not bomb in the spring and have seen alot of spiders, we also have brown recluse in colorado. Though never saw any type of swelling or other indication and my boy loves brushing his dog and always shows me any burrs or so forth he finds. Ticks, been very lucky have never had any on the dogs in the 12 years we have been at this house, we also do not have fleas as we are at too high of elevation for them to survive.

Mike-- Forget the fight, other than the possibility that the increased stress at the moment did damage to the developing fetus. Now---who is the dominant of the two birthing females? If the healthy litter is from the dominant female, then the 'wild dogs in Africa' documentary could come into play. If both birthing mothers are equal in status--it could still be the problem. The female with the deformed puppies just can't cope with the stress of another female having puppies. Did her first litter coincide with another female's?

Mike-- I forgot to add--How is the dam of the reduced litter acting now? Is she the same as before? More stressed--with evident symptoms?

usually the brown recluse make nasty infections on the skin and systemic, and as you likely know,they hide under things like picnic tables and such. I am quite familiar with the environment you live in, and have treated many spider bites over the years. Not sure I suspect brown recluse but maybe. At any rate most times we never know what bit who.

Mike, what a sorry event to happen! My first thought is immunizations or even the Heartguard. While it may not seem related, please consider this. A couple years ago many of us who raise horses were told by our vets that the West Nile Virus vaccination had been tested and tested on pregnant mares and that had been found to be perfectly safe to use on bred mares. The following spring there were many, many horrible births causing many foals and mares to be put down. There were way more that one could say was a coincidence. The vaccine manufacturers still declare it to be safe, but we are no longer taking the chance. It is the first time I have ever questioned the safety of vet prescribed immunizations and meds. Just something to think about.

LMH-The females are pretty close to equal ground with the one who had the screwed up litter being probably more dominant, and the other not willing to start a fight but also not willing to give in. As far as the female of the reduced litter, she is acting fine, leaves the pups and comes out in the living room to hang out, goes outside now for extended periods, not worrying about comeing in. Acts the same as she did with the first litter. We did have a female that was pregnant at the same time as her last litter. The one pup that lasted a couple of days, she knew there was something wrong with it and actually kept putting it out side the welping box.

Sorry I couldn't shed more light for you, Mike. I'm sure you really want a definitive answer to prevent any reoccurence of this tragedy. I did read something about the vaccines having a cumulative effect, changing a dog, and affecting later litters. (But, if she's young--how many could you have given her?) The Heartguard--was it a stronger dosage than before---I'm grasping at straws, now. Anyway, good luck with the surviving puppies. Hope you really enjoy them.

Was she put on any type of antibiotic after the dog fight?

At what time during her pregnancy did she get into the heartguard? Was she given this all through the pregnancy? There are many poisens in Heartguard. That is what it is. I would never give this to a pregnant dog (actually I never give it period). I do deworm my sheep regularly, however, MOST dewormers tell you not to use during certain stages in the pregnancy as this will cause birth defects.

When a entire litter is affected instead of just a few abnomal/birth defects one tends to think this is indeed not a gentic problem but a virus/infection which can happen and results in the entire litter will be stages of something wrong with this uterine virus will results in this..there is not way to test for this now but if the two dogs produced healthy and then this one tends to think this is what happened to your litter. Some if borndead may appear mummified another sign of this virus.