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by Elkoorr on 16 January 2010 - 15:01
I picked the boy that was following me arround while there. Should have known better. Ended up with a pup that never seen a dewormer, no shots, had decreased imune function, and was nervous. I call him my $10,000 dog. Was at the Vet on a bi-weekly basis for staph infections, allergies that really came trough once I had neutered him, and special diets. I put a lot of work and training in this boy. He was spooked of everything which turned into fear agression in his teens. Ladies lover, hated men to death.
Do obedience rally with him and we are up to the excellent level. Last year I trialed him for the BH, and we passed. Even though Warren Jones will remember him as the dog that almost bit him in the a$$ (he punched him with the nose really hard from behind) while walking down a woody area to test the dog off leash. ( tzzzz.... whats a strange man walking with my moma in the woods?)
Well, in Germany we have a saying: "nervous dogs make good watch dogs" and thats exactly what he is.
by Jenni78 on 16 January 2010 - 15:01
by rainforestscouts on 16 January 2010 - 16:01
RFS
by Two Moons on 16 January 2010 - 17:01
I liked djc's post.
I think there are many prejudices among breeders of specific lines and thats the way it is.
If you add pets as a line of their own, side by side with the show and working lines you will see the same thing in the dogs, good and bad.
The one major difference for better or worst is the diversity of bloodlines in the pet population.
As djc pointed out this does not produce consistency which to me is a good thing.
Versatility is what made the German Shepherd Dog great, don't knock diversity.
You may need to tap into that resource one day.
I'm not good with terms or labels, I believe the only difference to consider is some breed with a purpose while others have none.
This you will never change.
My opinion is there are some great dogs out there living as pets, healthy and strong, brave and intelligent.
No one can tell me any given line is ultimately better to serve man.
Show your show, work your working lines, competition drives these breeds and they do well for those purposes, but don't look down your nose on pets who don't compete with you.
You don't honestly know whats out there simply because they don't compete with you so how can you judge them.
The biggest problem is breeders who only want income in all areas of the breed, puppy mills can claim titles too.
Taken as a whole the pet population is nothing to look down upon.
Moons.
by nonacona60 on 16 January 2010 - 17:01
I totally understand your post. I have found myself in the same situation. I can't understand it. Guess its the luck of the draw. I do believe that when breeding, it takes research of pedigrees and phyiscal dogs involved to get the best we can. I do know of people that breed two purebred dogs and don't even know what a pedigree really is. They sell their pups left and right, because they can bulls--t their buyers into anything. Responsible breeders don't do that. I don't breed very often, and when I do, I start researching many many months ahead. I had a litter last May and just sold my last puppy in October. I also sell to responsible owners, ONLY. Thats probably why I kept my puppies so long. I plan on doing a breeding at the end of this year, MAYBE!! I have started my research already. I don't think its fair to say that
VA dogs are the worst of the worst. There are alot of good dogs out there. Many are not titled. But I will not breed to a dog just because he has a title. AKC Champion titles are awarded only after a dog obtains 15pts, with two shows awarding 3 or more points. That way the dogs has to be shown under several judges and not just one to get his Championship. In other words, all the judges must see the same qualities in the dog. Its not just one who gives him the championship. Is this the same way for a dog to obtain a VA rating?
by Jenni78 on 16 January 2010 - 18:01
There is beauty in utility. BYB dogs SEEM better if you compare them to show dogs b/c BYB aren't bred to look one specific way. It's quite simple, really.
by Elkoorr on 16 January 2010 - 18:01
Everything has to start with a responsible breeder and then end with a responsible owner. A strong handler can mask any temperament flaw; a title gives you only an idea.
by yoshy on 16 January 2010 - 19:01
I agree with jenni.
However i ask this: how do you get a purebred dog? in all pure breeds there are inbreeding and close line breeding. This causes issue in all purebreds. decreased imune systems, HD, ED, bloat, temperament issues, and many many more.
Show dogs build on that and intesify the issues at hand due to poor breeding and breeding for a single purpose. Show breeders have changed the structure and mental status of the breed to the point is can no longer be used as a german shepherd and follows with many issues. Many dont possess the necessary drives for work, physical capability, or durability.many cant physically do it due to change of angulations and structure for which highly degrades perfomance. I for one find no use, nor find show line dogs attractive. But that is in the eye of the beholder. However my point being is this. the shepherd was comprised of a mix of purebred dogs. which allows some diversification in the gene pool. Then you create a breed off of these dogs in which closes the gene pool. The showline create a seperate pool that closes it off even further. It cant help but cause issues in continueing to narrow the genes as with inbreeding and linebreeding you bring out the best and definitely intesify the worst qualities in the offspring. or all bad. It is a subject that could go on for years and has. Then you take the last pool of dogs, (showline) and you factor in generations of breeding for a single pupose without consideration of many qualities that makes the german shepherd what it is and you end up with a very unsound mental and physical dog with many flaws.
to the original question you can take your chances but if you do your necessary research on the breeding that took place you have a much slimmer chance of getting screwed. You should know everything about the pup/dog, and its lineage dogs before purchasing. I dont know about you but when i spend thousands i dont do it at a spur of the moment. I spend a significant amount of time hand selecting each dog i buy for a my purpose i intent the dog to used for. And a sound breeder will do there best to provide you with good candidates for your intent.
by rainforestscouts on 16 January 2010 - 19:01
A couple of years ago, I went to see a litter of German Shepherds that were advertised in the paper for two or three hundred dollars. When I got there, what I found was a BYB who breeds his bitch once a year to make a couple of bucks. His bitch, however, was a bi-color, 75#, athletic, and confident girl. He began to tell me why he liked her. She was great with his other animals and with his young children, yet protective of the house. She was clear headed and easy to train. "Watch this." He pointed at a twig sprouting from a tree root. "Get it." That dog tried to pull that twig out and did not stop until he told her to. This was his measure of utility. I might have taken my chances with a pup if he had not then began to brag to me that dad was 120# silver color. Many breeders' measure of utility is whether or not they can, after countless hours of spitting hot dogs at the dog, make him heel with his ear firmly attatched to their thigh.
What ever happened to DR?
RFS
by MaggieMae on 16 January 2010 - 19:01
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