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by hodie on 03 December 2009 - 16:12
Mahon,
Great post. You hit the nail on the head in my opinion. The bottom line is that perhaps some of these dogs can be rehabilitated, but it is the placement in knowledgeable homes that is the issue. In my rescue experience, I have seen how few homes (with regard to GSDs, who have not been bred or taught to fight) there are. And all too many of us can easily become too complacent. For example, someone called me yesterday wanting to give up their GSD, 4 years old, a family dog having been around young children for years. Apparently a few days ago on a walk a young child ran up to it without the parent being in control of the child, and the dog, on a leash, held loosely, bit the kid right in the face. Now the family who owns the dog is faced with terrible consequences, not to mention the poor young boy who was bitten. Fortunately, he will be ok, but the point is that dogs can be unpredictable, even dogs we think we know. So yes, when considering "saving" a dog who has been trained to fight, I personally think the responsibility is too great for almost all homes. So how does one make such decisions becomes the question. I know when I have had a pit here boarding, I am always even more diligent about how I manage that dog. To date, I have never had a problem with one, even one brought here who supposedly was a fight trained dog. So the questions come as to what is norm, what to do with a dog so rehabilitated, is a dog ever really rehabilitated, and how to justify the expenditure of resources to save such dogs when so many others without baggage end up being put down? I only ask these questions to stimulate discussion as I have my own answers. I posted the article also to stimulate some discussion and perhaps make some think, especially those involved in rescue.
We have several groups in my state that go out of their way to bring in huge numbers of "puppy mill" rescues, often diseased or congenitally disabled or injured. They get a lot of publicity, while daily, the area shelters with constant overpopulation (daily load more than 300 in my local shelter), struggles for funding, help, adoptive homes, resources, and staff. Somehow, it does not make sense to me.
Great post. You hit the nail on the head in my opinion. The bottom line is that perhaps some of these dogs can be rehabilitated, but it is the placement in knowledgeable homes that is the issue. In my rescue experience, I have seen how few homes (with regard to GSDs, who have not been bred or taught to fight) there are. And all too many of us can easily become too complacent. For example, someone called me yesterday wanting to give up their GSD, 4 years old, a family dog having been around young children for years. Apparently a few days ago on a walk a young child ran up to it without the parent being in control of the child, and the dog, on a leash, held loosely, bit the kid right in the face. Now the family who owns the dog is faced with terrible consequences, not to mention the poor young boy who was bitten. Fortunately, he will be ok, but the point is that dogs can be unpredictable, even dogs we think we know. So yes, when considering "saving" a dog who has been trained to fight, I personally think the responsibility is too great for almost all homes. So how does one make such decisions becomes the question. I know when I have had a pit here boarding, I am always even more diligent about how I manage that dog. To date, I have never had a problem with one, even one brought here who supposedly was a fight trained dog. So the questions come as to what is norm, what to do with a dog so rehabilitated, is a dog ever really rehabilitated, and how to justify the expenditure of resources to save such dogs when so many others without baggage end up being put down? I only ask these questions to stimulate discussion as I have my own answers. I posted the article also to stimulate some discussion and perhaps make some think, especially those involved in rescue.
We have several groups in my state that go out of their way to bring in huge numbers of "puppy mill" rescues, often diseased or congenitally disabled or injured. They get a lot of publicity, while daily, the area shelters with constant overpopulation (daily load more than 300 in my local shelter), struggles for funding, help, adoptive homes, resources, and staff. Somehow, it does not make sense to me.
by Nans gsd on 03 December 2009 - 17:12
Why rehabilite those dogs when there is another trustworthy dog waiting in shelters/rescue organizations for a home?
Sure I like to save the dogs also, but not one you cannot trust.
Sure I like to save the dogs also, but not one you cannot trust.
by Nans gsd on 03 December 2009 - 17:12
Why rehabilite those dogs when there is another trustworthy dog waiting in shelters/rescue organizations for a home?
Sure I like to save the dogs also, but not one you cannot trust.
Sure I like to save the dogs also, but not one you cannot trust.
by Held on 03 December 2009 - 17:12
All dogs that can be rehabilitated should be rehabilitated.
If we can waste too much money and effort keeping serial killers and rapist,who we know can not be rehabilitated and cost us way too much money then i think these dogs deserve another chance.And everyone invoved in putting these dogs through hell should be punished to the max.Have a nice one.
by Two Moons on 03 December 2009 - 18:12
Most fighting dogs will not bite a human, thats not why they are bred. At least up until a few years ago.
Things have changed.
The aggression is from instinct and because of some breeding practices some of these dogs have hair triggers.
Not knocking the breed itself, only the breeders and these idiots from the article.
I'm sure some would make good dogs to the right individual, but not to just anyone.
I take great issue with the article itself.
Where were these dogs taken from, the ring or someones home?
Where are the facts?
Who was arrested, and what were the charges?
Sloppy journalism.
Who is paying for the secret warehouse, the food and vet care, the caretakers and security.
This will be used for fund raising that goes without saying, where will that money really go?
And what about the dogs themselves?
Too many secrets.
BTW Held,
I could cut down on our prison population real quick myself.
Moons.
Things have changed.
The aggression is from instinct and because of some breeding practices some of these dogs have hair triggers.
Not knocking the breed itself, only the breeders and these idiots from the article.
I'm sure some would make good dogs to the right individual, but not to just anyone.
I take great issue with the article itself.
Where were these dogs taken from, the ring or someones home?
Where are the facts?
Who was arrested, and what were the charges?
Sloppy journalism.
Who is paying for the secret warehouse, the food and vet care, the caretakers and security.
This will be used for fund raising that goes without saying, where will that money really go?
And what about the dogs themselves?
Too many secrets.
BTW Held,
I could cut down on our prison population real quick myself.
Moons.
by Prager on 03 December 2009 - 21:12
Dogs are born with inherited instincts, then they learn thing 1 then 2,3,4,5,6,7... if 1-6 is bad and we "retrain" the dog by doing good thing "7", which suppose to reverse 1 - 6, then it depends on depth of conditioning (how many repetitions) and on the depth of time (time during which these repetitions are conducted), how successful this endeavor will be. More repetitions through longer period of time will help cover the problem of 1-6 better. But the problems are going to always be there. Then comes the scenario where the dog is put into stressful situation. IN that case the dog is going to go back to at first 6 then 5,4,3,2,1 and finally to the inherited instinct.
This is somewhat simplistic, I know. But the jest of it is that dogs under certain conditions, no matter how well they are retrained, will go back to the problem behavior. What is going to stress the dog to the point of him to revert is also a question. Sometimes it could be high pitch scream of a child....
Thus, I guess, it is important for the person who adopts such dog to know all this and be able to handle it if it happens.
Never set yourself up for failure and hope that after retraining the dog is a Lassie. Because it is not.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
This is somewhat simplistic, I know. But the jest of it is that dogs under certain conditions, no matter how well they are retrained, will go back to the problem behavior. What is going to stress the dog to the point of him to revert is also a question. Sometimes it could be high pitch scream of a child....
Thus, I guess, it is important for the person who adopts such dog to know all this and be able to handle it if it happens.
Never set yourself up for failure and hope that after retraining the dog is a Lassie. Because it is not.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
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