Look GARD, it's a real dog!!! - Page 2

Whatever the problems with the decoy or not ,this dog showes you that he will bite your ass if you fight him.Is it not what everyone fantasizes about a real dog that will bite you with or without equipment.

Phil are you saying you do not have a dog like that in States already that will bite for real?have a nice one.

Held:

There are dogs that bite witout pads that still show control and training, This dog looks out of control and nerved up. Could be bad training could be nervy dog any dog will bite flesh in the right situation thats not always a tough dog or a good thing..  

Nope, not saying that I don't, just saying that I'm a better handler than that, knock on wood.  But, everyone sitting behind the keyboard feels the same way and has myriad reasons why things like this should not happen.  Ex husband or not, this is never funny and if one person learned something about handling/training by posting it, I guess it was worth it.

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First off I would like to say OUCH!!! That is going to leave some scares..hehe

Second, GARD's original post was about a real GSD, this is a Malinois. Two totally different dogs and also very different worth ethics.

I would not place the total blame for this on the helper or totally on the dog. I was a COMBINATION of bad helper work and bad handling. I would not blame the dog at all for this. The dog is TRAINED to bite and did so. The dog came in the blind and griped the sleeve instead of doing a hold and bark, so the helper with his UNPROTECTED hand tried to sock the dog on the head. The handler should have been holding onto the long line and would have been able to correct the dog if need be. So there were several factors leading to this bite. In no way would I say this dog has weak nerves. I would say he has very high fight drive. He didnt back down from a threat, but in fact took it to the next level and met the threat head on.

This is also why it is called TRAINING....we all learn from our mistakes. Some mistakes are just more painfull than others..hehe. Hopefully the handler and helper and other club members that were watching learned from this mistake. That is what training is all about.

Last but not least....a REAL GSD to me is Pike von der Schafbachmuhle....I love watching his video!!

Apparently the BSP thread has been sabotaged.  I have one question for you, the "sport" of Schutzhund was developed as a tool to evaluate the GSD's fitness for breeding correct?  Actually, several questions, sorry.  Now, if the show line dogs are having such a difficult time performing utilitarian acts that were designed specifically for them and as you say, it's not important to most people to have their dogs bite and perform the "perfect" hold and bark, why do it at all?  Why have the Sieger Show even connected to United "Schutzhund" Clubs of America?  If Schutzhund was, as we say, developed to gauge fitness for breeding, and the show line dogs have a difficult time performing the Schutzhund, are the show line dogs even fit for breeding???  If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck,,,,,it's a duck.

This dog does not have week nerves.  In fact he has strong nerves and shows you be bringing the fight to you.  I am not a mali guy but this dog brought the fight to the threat.  He would make a great police k-9.  In law enforcment training you want a dog that will dis-engage a tool used to catch a dog and reattack the person on the weapon hand.  One that will fight with you and bite hard.  Strong nerves. 

I do agree that for sport this is no good.  He should have not been let off lead until sure he will not dis-engage the sleeve and bite the threat.  This was poor handling and (as a helper myself) poor helper work.  I would never work a dog off lead unless absolutly sure that the dog is sleeve sure and will not come of to re-engage.  But by no means does this dog have weak nerves.  A weak nerve dog would have done a few things, from my experience, 1. will dis-engage, lower head and cower, afraid to get hit;  2. will dis-engage when hit and either cower or run to handler or both; or 3. will dis-engage, fear bite the attacking arm, let go quickly and cower or run to handler or both.

These are a few things off the top of my head.  This dog did neither.  He dis-engaged, bite the attacking arm and stayed in the fight.  Great nerves, fight drive, and civil drive!

Maggie, aren't you the one who has been putting down the sport of schutzhund every chance you get ("all that biting")? So why do you care about ANY line that requires titles, work or show? Second, news flash: the masses are asses. What "the majority of people want to see" is NOT what is good for the GSD as a breed, and many working line dogs are GORGEOUS. But you wouldnt know that, you openly admit to your lack of experience. And that same "majority" wouldn't know good bitework if it bit them in the face, why else do you hear people applauding piss poor work in the BSZS videos? The public also likes 130 pound lazy couch potatoes, does that mean we should breed them, too? Ugh. What makes money and what people like is why the GSD is in the crapper.

I agree with Bob and steve about the actual training of the dog in this video, but as you have pointed out yourself, Phil, one cannot judge a dog on one short clip or working. As soon as I saw the dog at the end of the sleeve I thought, "Ohh, this won't end well..." But who knows, the dog may have great control now after more training. 

BTW, two of my (gasp!) showline GSDs have drawn blood on decoys- does that make them "real"? Can I join the tuff dawg club now?

Bob i do not know what makes you think that this dog is nerved up as you say it.It is usually bad training and in this case it clearly showes bad training.i always love a dog that let you know when you are doing something wrong.we need dogs like that to teach dumb humans to learn to do things right. have a nice one.