Questions Re: Leader Dogs for the Blind & Accidently Bred 7 Month old Pitbull

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by MVF on 02 April 2009 - 22:04

I think the owner owes her FIRST ethical obligation to her dog (who she has already let down) and to the puppies, whose existence will be in her hands. She only owes a SECONDARY obligation to the "breed" and "breed people" and "animal control people".

The vet declined to spay as spaying a pregnant female definitely imposes additional risks on her life and safety. He is giving the bitch first consideration, which is ADMIRABLE. (Too many vets toot their own damn horns at the expense of our pets.) He probably did not decline to spay because spaying young has its own drawbacks (vets tend to like pediatric or adolescent spaying.)

The only factor that should push you in the direction of spaying is if you cannot guarantee decent homes for the puppies. If that is the case, then the risks to their mother may be worth it. BUT IT IS AN INDIVIDUAL DECISION.

by MVF on 02 April 2009 - 22:04

I have experience with Guiding Eyes for the Blind. PM me for more information if that interests you. In general you should know that NO breed of dog -- labs, goldens OR shepherds -- make good guide dogs outside of the very selective and narrow gene pool of dogs who have been bred and selected for extreme intelligence, biddability, judgmental disobedience, and VIRTUALLY NO PREY OR DEFENSE DRIVES. It is an brilliant accomplishment of these people that they could have preserved and advanced intelligence and biddability - and even the capacity to disobey when required -- all while knocking all drive out of the dogs. Imagine then the special challenge of training them to do their critical work -- without such drives.

I had a male who sired such dogs and he had no defense drive. He had too much prey drive and he had to be bred to bitches with low capacity to be stimulated visually to chase and hold.

Dog people like to say that "their" breed can guide the blind, but it is really a specialized sub-breed doing this sort of work.

by SilverJudge on 02 April 2009 - 23:04

Well, I guess if you don't own one, you'll never understand.

Please if he won't spay the mother then cull the puppies. There are WAY too many pits and pitx's already that don't have homes and WAY too many idiots who don't even realize they live where there is BSL.

That said, if he is willing to give the dog up, I'll find a rescue that will take her and spay/abort her and find her a competent home.

Courtney

by insideaway on 02 April 2009 - 23:04

While I'm not familiar with the Leader Dogs business themselves, I have some knowledge as my dog's full sister from the same litter is working as a seeing eye dog and the agency has made further enquiries to the breeder for more dogs.

That particular agency doesn't deal with small pups, only a little older with some basic obedience training. What they look for are intelligent, easily trainable dogs with steady temperaments. My dog is pretty much lapsed German showlines (got 770 on her talentsichtung, seeing a helper and a sleeve for the first time in her entire life), so I shouldn't think the lines matter very much, as long the dog itself is a sane, functioning member of the society.

by spernagsds on 02 April 2009 - 23:04

Hi there...

I am in Michigan and have very graciously donated two pups, both male to the leader dog program. I would be happy to answer any questions I can that you may have. Just drop me a PM or an email.

Shannan :)

by Rezkat5 on 02 April 2009 - 23:04

Have the dog spayed. If the current vet is not comfortable with doing so, find a competent vet that is. Yes, admirable that the vet had the bitch's safety in mind. Vets prefer not to spay while in heat, but will do so, if they have to. I know, from where I worked, we'd generally tell the owners to wait if it were just a heat cycle alone. But, have, not infrequently, spayed while in heat, even pregnant. The sooner the better as the further along the pregnancy is, the harder it is. As aweful as an "abortion" sounds, it is really the best thing for all involved.   There was a pug that I remember recently that we did, where there was an accidental breeding. These folks already had 4 adult and 4 puppies (that they had kept).

As others have said, far too many unwanted pets in shelters as is, especially pits or pit mixes.

The one doctor that I worked for, is amazing when it comes to such spays. Granted she might not have liked it, but was awesome at it. However, we are also talking about a person here that could do a 7 minute or less cat spay. And a small dog spay in less that 10 minutes.   If you blinked, you'd miss her do a cat neuter.

We also did a lot of trap and release of feral cat colonies. A lot of these, especially in the springtime would be pregnant.

Kathy

by Sunsilver on 03 April 2009 - 01:04

Yes, the blood supply to the uterus is increased during estrus. But it will increase even MORE during pregnancy, so I don't really see the value of waiting. Certainly, if she hadn't been bred, you'd want to wait for her to be out of heat, but if she's pregnant any way, why bother?

Doesn't make sense!

If she'd been my dog, I'd go for the morning after pill, as that's less invasive, then spay her when she's out of heat.

The vet I used to work for would warn the owner the bitch was liable to come back into heat after aborting, therefore, they'd have to keep a close eye on her to make sure she didn't get knocked up again by the neighbour's sneaky mutt.

by windwalker18 on 03 April 2009 - 04:04

If this is a dog who is INTENDED to be spayed eventually anyhow, and not one to breed. Then I'd go the pill/shot and hope for the best. Plan on spaying her a few weeks after she finishes her heat. That way even if thebreeding DID take it will still be possible to do a spay without too much problem. Since she will be spayed you need not be conserned with later problems with her heat cycles and spaying which often arise from the "morning after" treatments.

by RockyMud on 03 April 2009 - 10:04

Thank you all for your input on the pit and Leader Dogs.

It is really early right now, about 6 AM, so in the next couple of hours he will be calling to schedule a spay and the morning after shot (pill). I believe she only spotted a little, and the stray must of gotten in over the fence. Those damn boys will do anything for the girls. =) Any ways, I will keep you all updated. I did find out that he did want to bred her in her future, but (his words) now she is ruined.
She is a big sweetheart, but Pits are Pits. I am just saying that they are very hard to find good homes for that will not fight them, kill them, send to shelters, etc.

I just thought of this question. If you give the morning after pill, is there a chance that it will not work? I will call my vet later on and ask, but I still have a few hours til they open. Just wondering...

RockyMud

by ShelleyR on 03 April 2009 - 11:04

I always have to laugh when somebody asks if my dogs ever go for guides. I may have had a couple who would have done over the last 20-something years... but most of them would be perfectly happy to "guide" a person right across a busy highway into the path of an oncoming truck after a rabbit.
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