dogs bred for looks lose mental bite - Page 2

I agree that the show lines are much to blame.  About 30 years ago I owned a lovely and very smart rough collie.  That was my breed of choice.  Not anymore!  The last time I checked in on the breed I was dismayed to see how much it had changed.  Looks like everyone in their quest for "expression" is now breeding giant Shetland Sheepdogs.  The noble look has changed to a pinched narrow face with squinty eyes and the brain is all but nonexistent.  What once was considered a no-no 30 years ago (a sable-merle) is now the norm.  Unfortunately, the popularity of a breed is also it's downfall.  I was horrified to see Joe Biden bring home a GSD for the vice-presidential dog.  The exposure this dog will receive in the media may bring on a GSD frenzy in this country.  The back yard breeders will have a hey-day.  And, like most white house dogs, this one will most likely be allowed to run amok and eventually "disappear"once he becomes a nusiance.  I may be wrong but I seriously doubt this dog will get the attention, socialization and training it needs and after some bad press it will be quietly disposed of. 

I owned a OFA certified German line bitch and though I loved her dearly and she was intelligent she lacked most of what would be German characteristics.  She had no drive, would not fetch, had poor pigmentation and ended up with a displastic hip.  She was the sweetest thing I have ever known.  My newest acquistion is American line, with lots of bone, good pigmentation, incredible drive and at 4 months she has most of her OB skills down.  It is too soon to know how she will turn out but right now I am very encouraged despite her piss-poor pedigree.  We spent a bit of time checking for local breeders and what we found overall was very discouraging.  We were not looking for a dog to work, just a companion but we wanted her to look & act like a GSD.  Both of her parents were on sight and I liked the looks of them and the entire litter were go-getters.  It appears we have more than we expected out of this American line.  She must be a throwback to her German ancestors as I believe she would make an excellent working dog.  Her favorite pastime is tug o war & carrying things around in her mouth.  She is very willful and a challenge.  Time will tell if we lucked out on our decision to go American and worse yet, back yard bred.  I'll keep you posted.

Deb 

How could anyone (with a straight face) justify breeding a working breed litter based on conformation titles? I think the GSD world would do best with one simple change. Do as the working Border Collie people do in the US If a dog has gains a conformation title - it's registration is revoked and it's progeny are automatically disbarred from being registered. Any progeny that have previously been registered are disbarred once a they or a parent gains a conformation title. Whether a dog's conformation is good for it's work should be decided one way only - by whether it excels at the work it is intended to do. BUT, seeing as that 90% of the dog world "insiders" are mostly people who show in conformation, I don't suppose they have the ability to stop themselves. Of course this is my opinion. But then, I do'nt really care if a GSD has rich pigmentation, or good bone, or good ears or a laid back shoulder, etc...etc....I like the look of dogs on the podium at working trials. Some people care more about the looks, but are savy enough to know they can't admit out loud, so they rationalize all sorts of nonsense to justify their pursuit of "pretty".

Interesting that the same destructive breeding goals have happened with gsds and collies on both sides of the pond. Lassie would be a laughing stock in AKC, and, apparently, KC show rings as that broad wedge head (containing an actual brain) has been bred down to a narrow, needle-head with eye problems, temperament issues and acceptance of all that had been disqualifying faults previously. For example,collies with too much white were not in the ring even a decade or so ago. But, once so many white collies were bred, the standard was changed to accommodate it. The Ambred gsd and the Alsatian don't look anything like the gsds in the rest of the world.

Comformation serves a purpose.  It outlines the breed.  If we all didn't care what the dog looks like regarding, bone, pigment, slope of shoulder or ear set etc. then what is the point of the breed?  I'm not justifying what is being bred for the show ring.  I think a judge that puts up a "pretty" dog over a solid working dog is who should be barred.  It's the judges that allow breeders to muck up the standard and get away with it.  But I stand by the standard as originally designed and feel that if we don't insist on the basic standard then we might as well breed to anything we think will increase drive, bite etc.  Oh wait...I think someone already tried that...Shiloh Shepherds anyone?

How true!!!!

On the other thread they are still arguing about the ideal shape of the dog's back!!!! What idiots.

If your body is beautiful isn't your mind too beautiful?

What many believe is beautiful is not what nature believes is beautiful.

Appearance itself per se is an asset, no matter what you call working ability. One reason I like my GSD girl is that she is very pretty. I like getting compliments about her appearnce from strangers. She also moves great, with a very fluid gait.

One can say that the GSD is naturally protective.  A gun and a watch dog, particularly one with a certain reputation, is no less useful than SchH3, perhaps more so.

But then again working ability is also an asset per se as well. I think I like both, seldom in the same animal. I think I will eventually have both American showline and imported working line.

I can't agree with the concept of what the GSD is bred for. It is now, 2009 and in a highly urban area, a dog with too high a drive also has the potential for problems for many owners. Many imports are confined to a dog run. I can't be sure if the current high drive imports deviate less from the original GSD decades ago in Germany, than the low-drive American. Likely the original GSD was somewhere in-between.

My low drive American girl is also quite dog friendly. A dog is mostly a pet, one that can get along with other pets is a great asset as well. Companion animals getting along!! very important to me, and I also like a GSD this way not matter what it is bred for.

When I sell my pups, I am very forthright about the low drive of the American showline. Many owners want precisely a low drive heathy and beatutiful GSD. To many, a dog is basically a pet. I think many people, more than many will admit , really what a pet in a GSD.

quote
"I can't agree with the concept of what the GSD is bred for. It is now, 2009 and in a highly urban area, a dog with too high a drive also has the potential for problems for many owners. Many imports are confined to a dog run. I can't be sure if the current high drive imports deviate less from the original GSD decades ago in Germany, than the low-drive American. Likely the original GSD was somewhere in-between."

There lies the problem, GSDs were never intended to be prisoners in a dog run and normal and even high drive dogs do just fine if free to be part of the family.  The problem starts when too much confinement makes them bored and frustrated.

Margaret N-J
www.nyrvana.co.uk

Many high drive imports end up locked up in a dog run, no matter what the intent of the owner was originally. A high drive GSD requires more commitment in training.

There is some chance that a American GSD be too shy, but not more than that an import be too aggressive.I think the latter is a greater heart break, if kids are attached to a GSD that is too aggressive to strangers.

American GSD's can have some working abilities, like guiding the blind and SAR.

I think it is a matter of the dog fitting the owner.