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by firethorn on 16 January 2008 - 01:01
Lyme disease can definately cause something like this sudden onset. I've seen dogs that were absolutely fine one night and the next morning not be able to rise, not attempt to rise actually. Lieing flat out on their sides. It is also dorment for who knows how long. Deer ticks are carriers adn are VERY very small. Much much smaller than Brown dog ticks. A test for tick born diseases is inexpensive. There is a snap test available as well as sending a tick panel out. You could also be seeing Coon dog tick paralyisi which is not a true paralysis but the dog is definately having neurological issues. They recover spontaneously when the tick detaches. If it is a very small tick and your dog is heavily coated , you may not see it. If you are in the Western, Southern mid-Atlantic region you could definitely have ticks.
It does not sound like this dog is actually paralyzed, he responds to toe pinches and can move his legs, but isn't. I'm guessing he is in terrific pain. If he were truely paralyzed he woudl be incontintent and incapable of moving his legs.
He could also have pain in his neck or back causing him to not want to stand or rise. That is where an MRI would come in handy, but it would not be inexpensive.
by Two Moons on 16 January 2008 - 02:01
Nismo the only one who can really help you would be a vet. If your first one is stumped find another.
Dont rule out poison, anti freeze or worst.
Hope things get better.
by Nancy on 16 January 2008 - 02:01
Not just lyme but when I was a teen in Florida, they had something called tick bite paralysis - it is imperitive to get the tick off if it is on him. But it would do that to dogs.
by yellowrose of Texas on 16 January 2008 - 02:01
dID THE VET DO A CHECK FOR LYME DISEASE? DID HE XRAY HIS SPINE ? THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST...BUT WITH NO PAIN....ID BE SUSPICIOUS OF LYME OR TICK.....
by crimsonribbon on 16 January 2008 - 03:01
My dad's Rottweiler once became mysteriously paralyzed and the vet said it was probably the result of him getting in a fight with a raccoon (Coon Hound Paralysis?). My dad had to care for him for 3 months, hauling the heavy Rott out of a large straw filled wooden crate twice every day so he could potty....the dog would wait all day until he wasn't in his bed to go. My dad ended up having to put overalls and a thermal top on the Rott when he got bedsores....but after a couple months the dog slowly started to regain control of his limbs and eventually was completely back to normal. He lived to be 13 years old.
by Nismo90tt on 16 January 2008 - 03:01
------- I will do the best to answer these replies and questions one by one. Questions will be in bold italics, then my reply will be in regular font under that. Best way I know how to do it.
Is there any chance your dog was bitten by a raccoon? Was the onset sudden or did you note the dog not feeling well prior to the time you found him not willing to stand? Was there any change, for example, in his gait prior to this?
I suppose it is possible that my dog was bitten by a raccoon. The Coon Paralysis was the vet's best guess as to what was wrong, although she did NOT find any bite marks, cuts, or other injuries. I have not actually seen a raccoon anywhere near my yard, but there are woods not far from my house (across the street actually), and I have seen them on a few roads around my house.....I actually hit one on accident one time. So I suppose the raccoon was possible. As far as any prior notice...there was NONE that was noticed. My wife fed Toby and Kaiser (both GSD) at around 10pm on Tuesday night. Later that night she heard howling but thought nothing of it because they howl at the firetrucks whenever they go near our house. Although she said it was a "different howl", she still chalked it up to the firetrucks (she heard the sirens), same thing I would have done. When I went to feed him on Wednesday morning at appx. 815AM he was laying in the backyard only able to move his head and neck. No noticed change in any of his behavior before his happened...he was lively Toby that we knew.
There are other possibilities besides what you listed. However, barring an injury or some sort of acute neurological problem, the best guess is the Coon Hound paralysis or Lymes. Lymes can be tested for very quickly.
No noticed injuries were found by the vet.
The dog should have range of motion and exercise of all its' limbs each day, multiple times. You must very carefully clean the dog to make sure it does not develop urine scalding or irritation from fecal matter. The dog must eat, however you can get that accomplished, and have plenty of water, which makes the elimination more frequent. Watching the dog carefully too for signs of respiratory depression is critical. If that happens, prognosis is not very good. There are few medications that will help these types of conditions.
We feed him twice a day as we always did and he has no loss of appetite. He drinks water with no problems as well. We assist him with urinating when we feel he needs it (every couple of hours).
Nismo, I lost a dog last year to paralysis and the cause was never determineded. My boy was not yet 2, he would not eat and was wasting away so we had to have him put down. An MRI showed nothing but since he was playing ball at the time, they ASSUMED injury. No surgery, they put a cast on his neck to immobilize his head, just in case. I believe the cast was no help, he had been in no pain and afterward I was sorry we left it on, seemed to make him very stressed. He would not eliminate in the house, we had to empty his bladder manually and he hated it. Horrible watching him suffer and waste away, he was such a good boy, we will never be the same. I got another GSD right away, he's a year old now and we just got a puppy but it does not replace the one we lost. They have their own place in our hearts but Link's place is still there. When we first took him in they said the cost of an MRI and subsequent surger
by Nismo90tt on 16 January 2008 - 03:01
Two more replies just as I was typing my last one.
dID THE VET DO A CHECK FOR LYME DISEASE? DID HE XRAY HIS SPINE ? THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST...BUT WITH NO PAIN....ID BE SUSPICIOUS OF LYME OR TICK.....
No, as far as I know she did not check for Lyme Disease. We are returning to the vet tomorrow to request bloodwork. We are going to take him to a different vet and request bloodwork as well. We are going to take him to his regular vet first and have them do the bloodwork before we go to a different vet. As far as the x-rays go, the vet said she took x-rays. I didn't see the x-rays, so I have no idea what she took them of. She simply said she did not see anything broken or fractured, but that x-rays usually wont show a slipped disk, compression on the spine, etc. and for that we would need a myelogram or such. I am beginning to think this could very possibly be Lyme Disease, because I have never seen a raccoon near the house. Are there any other telltale symptoms of Lyme Disease?
by Nismo90tt on 16 January 2008 - 03:01
Nismo, I lost a dog last year to paralysis and the cause was never determineded. My boy was not yet 2, he would not eat and was wasting away so we had to have him put down. An MRI showed nothing but since he was playing ball at the time, they ASSUMED injury. No surgery, they put a cast on his neck to immobilize his head, just in case. I believe the cast was no help, he had been in no pain and afterward I was sorry we left it on, seemed to make him very stressed. He would not eliminate in the house, we had to empty his bladder manually and he hated it. Horrible watching him suffer and waste away, he was such a good boy, we will never be the same. I got another GSD right away, he's a year old now and we just got a puppy but it does not replace the one we lost. They have their own place in our hearts but Link's place is still there. When we first took him in they said the cost of an MRI and subsequent surgery would be between $2500 and $3500, three days in the hospital and no surgery ended up being $4500. They know they have you and there's nothing you can do but try to save them. I don't know that we could have done any more but I couldn't watch him suffer. If your boy is eating and eliminating that's a step in the right direction, he's hanging in there. If that were the case with us we would have tried to wait it out and see if there was any improvement. I wish you the best, I know just how hard it is. My husband and I would pile blankets on the floor to keep him as comfortable as possible, we massaged him, turned him every few hours and picked him up and took him outside just to smell the air, hoping he'd at least try to put weight on his legs, to no avail. We ended up putting him on our waterbed to keep him more comfortable. My heart goes out to you and I hope it will turn around, give him a hug from me in my boy's memory.
Cindi
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Kaiser (my all black GSD) was a gift to me from my wife (at the time my fiancee). I love him to death and don't know how I would deal with him being gone. We got him at 8 weeks old and have had him since. His parents were AKC, but we had no plans to have him bred so he was never registered and has since been fixed. Toby is my wife's "baby". As stated he was rescued from a shelter and is skittish of men. So he took to her instantly and has never looked back. Toby follows her, and Kaiser follows me.
I'm glad to hear that you have another companion and I hope all is well with him.
by Nismo90tt on 16 January 2008 - 03:01
Lyme disease can definately cause something like this sudden onset. I've seen dogs that were absolutely fine one night and the next morning not be able to rise, not attempt to rise actually. Lieing flat out on their sides. It is also dorment for who knows how long. Deer ticks are carriers adn are VERY very small. Much much smaller than Brown dog ticks. A test for tick born diseases is inexpensive. There is a snap test available as well as sending a tick panel out. You could also be seeing Coon dog tick paralyisi which is not a true paralysis but the dog is definately having neurological issues. They recover spontaneously when the tick detaches. If it is a very small tick and your dog is heavily coated , you may not see it. If you are in the Western, Southern mid-Atlantic region you could definitely have ticks.
We will check again for ticks, as he has had ticks in the past (we used to live in the country).
It does not sound like this dog is actually paralyzed, he responds to toe pinches and can move his legs, but isn't. I'm guessing he is in terrific pain. If he were truely paralyzed he woudl be incontintent and incapable of moving his legs.
He responded to pinches from the vet. However, I don't think he is in any actual pain. He does not whine constantly, nor does he whine with a "pain" whine. He does more "talking" whining than anything, and that is only when my wife shows up (her "baby" remember?). When I'm around, he will move his head and nudge my hand so I will pet him, but he doesn't whine. So I personally don't know if he is in any pain, but this is my opinion.
He could also have pain in his neck or back causing him to not want to stand or rise. That is where an MRI would come in handy, but it would not be inexpensive.
The cost of this procedure is what has me worried. I don't have a clue as to how we could afford to pay for a procedure such as this. The vet recommended a myelogram if we wanted to look for a slipped disk, compression from swelling, etc. She said we could have this done in Nashville, which is only 45 minutes away, so we are going to ask for a recommended office in Nashville. She also mentioned a cat scan, so I assume both can be done in the same office...as well as an MRI possibly. The neurologist is the one that is 4 hours away, so that would be harder to arrange
by Nismo90tt on 16 January 2008 - 03:01
At least a consult with a neurologist would not a be a bad idea. There is some weird neuro wasting type diseases that dogs can get.
I would like to be able to do this, however there is not one REAL close to me. Not only that, but I'm unsure as to how much this would cost. I don't imagine its terribly expensive, so we will have to consider this one, but it would be dependent on how soon we would be able to get him there (I'm a firefighter, so I work 24 hours at a time).
Just on a long shot, have you or your vet checked him thouroughly for a tick attached to him? I know you said it was cold but my sister lives in Massachusetts and has Lymes. She said in November, when it was freezing one day, they still had the little buggers out and hunters were complaining about them. I tick that is feeding can cause paralysis sometimes. Google tick bite paralysis. Hope he gets better for you soon, keep your chin up!
My wife checked him lastnight thoroughly for ticks while she was giving him a bath. She didnt find any. Also, the vet checked him on Wednesday, although it was not a "thorough" search. The vet mainly checked the most common spots. The vet mentioned the tick paralysis, as well as Lyme Disease, but she didn't feel he had all of the signs of Lyme Disease. We are going to request bloodwork be done (she didn't do any, just x-rays).
Nismo the only one who can really help you would be a vet. If your first one is stumped find another.
Dont rule out poison, anti freeze or worst.
Hope things get better.
We asked about poison, but there was never any vomiting or diarrhea. The vet said that these would be telltale signs of poisoning. I hope that the bloodwork we request will reveal the lack of poison.
I hope I have managed to answer most of the questions and/or comments posted by anyone. I appreciate the comments and possible diagnosis that all have offered. My wife gave Toby a bath lastnight (I was at the fire dept.). She said that while she was washing him on his back, he was wagging his tail and it was voluntary. Also, this morning (I got home at 8am so I didn't witness this) she said that he must have been chasing something in a dream because his back legs were moving as if he was running. So he has obvious control of his hind legs, but he won't even attempt to stand up. I'm wondering if there is something wrong with his front leg(s) and it is causing problems all over. Just as I type this he moved his rear right leg. I'm stumped.
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