Has anyone else noticed? - Page 2

Bob-O

The idea appeared to be to finish dogs fast and young--and to bred them ASAP before they succumbed to early death.

IMO, in achieving these goals and equally at fault were the specialty show breeders and judges (often, both the same entities) were the damned, prima-donna, specialty show handlers who appeared to have no loyalty to individual dogs nor to the breed. Their glut was satisfied by a few well-heeled breeders and exhibitors able to supply them with a steady stream of new dogs to prance around the ring with.

Mirasmon, Good for you. I keep telling people that if they want to educate AKC judges and more importantly John Q public they have to show in AKC shows. So NO don't go to a specialty(except for obedience) the public doesn't really attend them but all breed shows are great and there are a lot of judges out there that would like your guy. I don't know if they're still around but Edeltraud Laurin, Denny Kodner and Barbara Williams would all appreciate your dogs. And BBE is a great class. What better way of saying I'm proud of what I have produced.

You might want to check into membership in the GSDCA. While they are known as the "american show dog" club actually the performance people have been niching away the last 20 years and member performance titles far outweigh show titles these days. They have some great programs to honor performance dogs and those that produce them. Their national is a great week of all GSD events - herding, tracking, obedience, rally, agility and now AKC Working Dog Sport as well as conformation ( and you know there are still a few nice ones out there including gasp horrors some half breeds - half american half german). They have a parade of greats that any dog with a Schutzhund 3 is welcome to be part of. The obedience trial at the national offers brace, team, veterans and graduate novice classes. That blue ribbon could come in handy because that a HIT at the obedience trial = the Obedience Vitor/Vitrix for that year. The conformation ribbon is to show the dog has no disqualifying faults.

Who knows we just might get some of the different parts of the puzzle taling to each other again if we could all meet for a week of dog fun.

I'm hoping to go to Texas next November for the Nationl -perhaps I can meet you there and cheer you on.

The tragedy of this is that YES, all the German Shepherds came from the same 2 pair of ancestors, but that is all that there is in common. The Breeders  have not gone back to German bloodlines in many years, and have bred with the same bloodlines over and over again. The American Shepherd is a victim of poor breeding choices by the Breeders that breed them. Some are coming to breed to German dogs to fix what problems that they have created, but then what? Back to breeding the same way?

I am not against the dog, but the people that have ruined them and are breeding just to watch them SIDEGAIT and think that it is beautiful, and that is all there is. They have shaped and molded the dog to their thinking.  They have taken the GERMAN out of the dog.  There are many puzzle pieces to the German Shepherd, not just a doggy beauty pagent.  If a dog is not mentally sound, and physically healthy in ALL  WAYS, the pup and the owners are the biggest losers. That is why so many are in rescues or are euthanized.

Sure, there are politics with thw SV, but when it comes to breeding they are strict, and the AKC is not.

JMO......the American Shepherd breeders can flood this site, buy they will never have anything in common with the GERMAN Shepherd. The two dogs look and act totally different.

Louise, very insightful post.

Louise, can't argue with what you said. Even some of the handlers are aware of it: "...what we’ve done in this breed is we spend all of our time wanting the fleetest movers and for years I was a proponent of it. I caused a lot of it because I was younger and aggressive and I wanted the fanciest side gaiters I could get. And what we did was got a lot of fluffy coated Shepherds with feet like a fifty-cent piece. When you put them in the tub and put the hose on you had nothing left! It narrowed their head, their back-skull, and their muzzle."

Guess who said that?

Great thread, please keep it going.

Louise,

we don't always see eye to eye, but that is a great post! My compliments!

I don't go near AKC shows anymore, but reading that makes me so sad. Poor animals! Born to be doomed! That is why I have been saying over and over again: Health, temperament, structure! In that order and never reversed. Any breeder should be able to look into his puppy owners' eyes and say that he tried his best. We all know that dogs have problems, get sick, die early etc., but we (the breeders) should only breed with the healthiest dogs out there and do our homework before we ever have our first litter on the ground! And we never cease to learn through experience and talking to each other. For the past 15 years, I had people contact me who just wanted a pet and were advised by others, sometimes their vets to go for a German line dog because they tend to be healthier. That alone tells you something!

Chris

Silbersee

Within the GSD specialty show breeders, judges, and handlers were a dominant group of people who had no concept of loyalty or long-term commitment either to the breed or to their fellow humans (be they spouses or "domestic partners" of either sex). Almost as quickly as the dogs died, these folks migrated randomly (but at will) from one "relationship" to another.

These were the fickle, self-serving people who guided the fate of the GSD breed in this country for many years. They were rarely at home in stable family relationships.Their lenghty and frequent dog show "circuits" were often know for drugs, boozing, abandoned bed-hopping, and switching partners (far more frequently statistically than the general population, IMO).

Sunsilver  Louise, can't argue with what you said. Even some of the handlers are aware of it: "...what we’ve done in this breed is we spend all of our time wanting the fleetest movers and for years I was a proponent of it. I caused a lot of it because I was younger and aggressive and I wanted the fanciest side gaiters I could get. And what we did was got a lot of fluffy coated Shepherds with feet like a fifty-cent piece. When you put them in the tub and put the hose on you had nothing left! It narrowed their head, their back-skull, and their muzzle."

Guess who said that?

Answer: very probably J. Moses.

Yes, Louise, you're right.  I have some hope that maybe he can make a difference. Or maybe I'm just an idiot dreamer...

But I know some others that have the same dream, so who knows? I think the AKC shepherd has gone as far as it can go in the wrong direction. Maybe a major change is coming, with more and more breeders crossing their dogs to German lines once again.

God forbid if you are looking for breed salvation from the likes of Moses. I'm sure he only said that because a. He's found rich clients who will pay more for BIS and Kennel Review status than specialty wins and b. he like all of us has gotten old and probably is having more and more problems getting around a big ring with a dog that really moves out. You also forget his contribution to temperament problems - read his book someplace in there is a quote about it's good to have a spooky dog because it will get out in front of the handler and glh to get away from him.  I believe he also made the comment about kicking a dog in the balls to get him to gait out front - obviously not ever understanding the type of dog that would have come back UP the leash at him if he was stupid enough to do that. This is a man I've seen throw a poor scared bitch to the ground from chest height because she kept trying to get away from him - gee I wonder why.

Just curious where the quote came from where he supposedly "got religion" - by the way what's he breeding these days- I don't remember seeing anything startlingly different.