Long Coat/Plush Coat - Page 2

so... ITS LIKE A mole coat....  i was thinking of the long coat that parts at the withers and the coated GSD that has undercoat going overboard the outer coat... and there is a SLICK... Strong tough... tightly binding Normal lenght coat...

Texas, Did your pups have an undercoat despite being slick coated? If so that is a range of normal so I'm not sure what you mean by never having a normal coat.

Marci, guess I have to ask you to you define a mole coat, I have never heard that term. Just a fyi while coats have been accepted from the inception of  the breed the two exceptions  were dogs whose hair parted in the middle  and dogs w/o an undercoat whether the rest of their coat was long , short, full, slick or wirehaired ( yes we used to have some of those also)

Then there is the Erich coat  or wavy coat where the dog looks like he had a perm on his back. Not often seen these days but still does crop up every once in a while. Name comes from the dog the produced it originally. Forgot the kennel name think it was something like Grafenworth.

Yes... I saw a dog with the Erich coat ...before... Curly and tightly knit hair... curly even on the face hair... They coined this type of coat to Sieger Erich Grafenwerth ... tied with Bad CHARACTER... The MOLE coat is smooth and short ...like that of the common working dogs the Dobes and Rotties... The long coat have variables... long and thick undercoat that shows up breaking the outer coat... Long loose outer coat... nevertheless they are all Coat faults... as we are striving to get UNIFORMITY in coat-type... but to think of it its not the original coat of the GSD...

Marci, Would a smooth collie be a mole coat or is it different from that? From the sounds of it have never seen it in GSds.

 I will disagree with your statement that "but to think of it its not the original coat of the GSD..."    Actually long coats were part of the "original" GSd and accept fully as long as they had undercoat. They could even get KKl1 until the late 1960's when they were moved to Kkl2. IMHO the recent "disqualification" of coats had nothing to do with uniformity and everything to do with money. The Germans ( thru the Martin brothers) had been so successful in exporting the idea of "client states" they saturated the market ( please note up until the early 80s most countries had substantial "home grown" lines not dependent on German lines but occassionally crossed with them. Some of the larger populations that spring to mind are American, Canadian, English, Dutch and Swedish)

Since the market was saturated they needed a way to boost sales. Ergo eliminate coats wh/ constitute a VALUABLE 25% of the genome. New markets opened up to fill the void. Again IMHO this disqualification by the SV was the height of irresponsiblity because the GSD worldwide has a restricted gene pool and suffers the most genetic and congenital diseases of ANY dog breed in the world ( fact). Basically we are at state where you have to choose the health problem or fault you are willing to live with. In that spectrum of things a healthy coat starts to look pretty good.  Besides wh/ many of who have owned a coat at one time or the other will tell there is a difference w/ them - they bring something else to the table- attitudes and energy we desperately need in the breed.

I have been a student of the breed for many decades and one of my hobbies is collecting the old standards. You might find it interesting that in the standard changes from I believe it was 1938 where they started to move the whites out and make them less desirable, the language specifically exempted white LONG COATS. They were  very specifically kept in the gene pool. Hmmm.

Thecouch

I have 3 recommendations for you.

1. Re Read what you wrote above   particularly these sections  below that I will cite

2. Run in the other direction as fast as you can away from this breeder. if I may quote you    " The original breeding ... was to be with a short coated male. She had many requests for plush and long coats so decided to breed the female with one of her plush coated males. I do see where you are coming from but  she is not strickly a plush/long coated breeder. " .

Well yes she is. In fact it's worse than that. This person obviously has no goals or breeding plan instead she is responding to market pressure. There is apparently a ready market in her area for coats so she breeds coats for a quick buck. Please tell what in holy's name is good about that kind of breeding?

You then say "....I do understand some basic genetics and, again, do understand how breeding specifically for a certain gene can lead to terrible genetics in all sorts of animals. But personally I am not overly worried about that when it comes to this breeder.   Why would you not be worried?????  From your own words , it appears she is the worst kind commercial type of breeder - if it's a fad lets make a quick buck. What does this person really know about GSDs? Which leads me to #3

Please seriously consider whether you should be buying a German Shepherd.  I quote again  ".... even the pups had a very laid back attitude. (Which I am looking for). ....."             The German Shepherd is and should be a working dog. Do you know what it takes to herd 3,000 sheep for 10-14 hours a day? Working animals need high energy, stamina, intelligence, curiousity, independence and a trait called intelligent disobedience. They also need to be biddable and trainable and because of this can make very good companions but you MUST keep their mind and energy engaged and involved or you will have problems.  The words "laid back" have no place in the description of a GSD. There are people who try to breed the exterior of a GSD since people are drawn to that but  with the intelligence and energy of a fat slug. They are being dishonest w/ themselves and with you. That is not a German Shepherd.  Please rethink this purchase.

  I had never heard either term "slick" or "mole," but they sound like the same thing to me.  I had a bitch with that type of  short (with undercoat) coat, not quite as "tight" as a dobie or rottie, but there was not much to brush through.    Two judge/koermeisters loved her, though!

I agree that "plush" is a very nebulous term.   It can mean a coat that is is simply very full, but not long...until you take it a show and a koermeister dismisses it from the ring as a long-coat.  At the same time, I have seen dogs others considered longcoats that looked like just "plush" to me.  The term is not only nebulous, it is very much subjective. 

Personally, I have always been curious why the wire-coat disappeared.  I don't think that they were the most attractive things on four  legs, but does anyone know whether there were reasons other than cosmetic for the demise of the wire coat?  And, was there a long-coated version of the wire-coat?    is the Erich coat a vestige from the wire-coat, or something totally separate?

Nia

THECOUCH, who are you buying this long coat puppy from?  I am looking for a LC pup myself.  You can email me directly...thanks.

Here is a picture of my long coat. He has no hair between his toes and the fur on the backs of his legs is ok. His only problem is his ears both inside and out. His fur on his head is very soft. ( is that a silk coat). He is about 4 months in this picture. Both parents were standard coat but they both carried the LC gene. So 2 out of the 10 puppies in his littler were LC.

The breeder I got him from sells the LC for $800 vs $1500 for the satnadard coat. I feal like that was win win as I got a great looking dog for less.

Dave, 

He's a cutie. Good luck with him. What do you hope to do with him for a sport? I highly recommend herding. Of all the work I've done with my GSDs I love the herding the best.