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by HighDesertGSD on 09 March 2009 - 22:03
"Like the German SL, they are being bred with appearance and gait as the first priority. Not temperament."
I have no problem with "Like the German or DDR or Czech WL, they are being bred with working ability as the first priority. Not conformation and gait."
I would prefer a WL with sufficency in conformation and gait for myself. I am looking for such a dog and will eventually get one.
Some WL GSD really have atrocious conformation, just like some GSD bred in the USA, or even a few Am Showline GSDs, have really weak nerve.
One can't generalize too much. Many WL has acceptable comformation; many American bred dogs, most true Am Showline I believe, has acceptable temperament as a pet with some adjunct protection or other work ability.
I have no problem with "Like the German or DDR or Czech WL, they are being bred with working ability as the first priority. Not conformation and gait."
I would prefer a WL with sufficency in conformation and gait for myself. I am looking for such a dog and will eventually get one.
Some WL GSD really have atrocious conformation, just like some GSD bred in the USA, or even a few Am Showline GSDs, have really weak nerve.
One can't generalize too much. Many WL has acceptable comformation; many American bred dogs, most true Am Showline I believe, has acceptable temperament as a pet with some adjunct protection or other work ability.
by Mystere on 09 March 2009 - 23:03
Quote by HighDesert:
But appearance and gait can be the priority. Why not? Why can't people accept this preference in a GSD or Alsatian or by whatever name? I ask this question again.
God, I love your honesty!! One cannot argue with your preference, any more than my preference for Miracle Whip over mayonnaise.
Unfortunately, however, some of us are concerned about the future of the breed, so personal preference sometimes gets lost, disregarded, or rendered irrelevant. Some people have a preference for blue gsds, liver gsds (and I personally think the liver sables are beautiful), oversize gsds, someone somewhere is breeding "condo-sized" miniature gsds, Panda gsds, man-eaters, etc. If one truly cares about the breed (and some of us have very personal reasons for loyalty to this breed), personal preferences can't always be part of the equation. We have seen what has happened to the breed, because appearance was the priority.
I wish you well with you girl. You obviously cherish her. I also wish you well in your WL quest. I
But appearance and gait can be the priority. Why not? Why can't people accept this preference in a GSD or Alsatian or by whatever name? I ask this question again.
God, I love your honesty!! One cannot argue with your preference, any more than my preference for Miracle Whip over mayonnaise.
Unfortunately, however, some of us are concerned about the future of the breed, so personal preference sometimes gets lost, disregarded, or rendered irrelevant. Some people have a preference for blue gsds, liver gsds (and I personally think the liver sables are beautiful), oversize gsds, someone somewhere is breeding "condo-sized" miniature gsds, Panda gsds, man-eaters, etc. If one truly cares about the breed (and some of us have very personal reasons for loyalty to this breed), personal preferences can't always be part of the equation. We have seen what has happened to the breed, because appearance was the priority.
I wish you well with you girl. You obviously cherish her. I also wish you well in your WL quest. I
by HighDesertGSD on 09 March 2009 - 23:03
Someday I really like to explore the mind of a human being that does not appreciate appearance and grace in movement, but I suppose it is like music, some people cannot appreciate it.
If beauty were not important, then most movie stars would be averaged looking.
What, beauty and grace of movement don't have intrinic value? I feel a certain satisfaction from just looking at my Am Showline girl and particularly when she moves freely. She is SOOO nimble and graceful, she have beautiful long stride and beautiful body line.
Look, it is not bigamy. You can have different lines of GSDs for different appeal that each line provides.
I suppose if the color of a GSD indicates greater chance of some objective problem, like skin diseases, then there is a strong reason to avoid breeding it. If not, there is no problem with liver or blue, or white. (I have read that perhaps with blues there is. Don't concern me much as I like strong colors.)
Being more mellow can be an asset to some GSD owners, perhaps the majority of owners. It is not a detraction for all GSD owners, just some for entirely valid subjective reason as well.
If beauty were not important, then most movie stars would be averaged looking.
What, beauty and grace of movement don't have intrinic value? I feel a certain satisfaction from just looking at my Am Showline girl and particularly when she moves freely. She is SOOO nimble and graceful, she have beautiful long stride and beautiful body line.
Look, it is not bigamy. You can have different lines of GSDs for different appeal that each line provides.
I suppose if the color of a GSD indicates greater chance of some objective problem, like skin diseases, then there is a strong reason to avoid breeding it. If not, there is no problem with liver or blue, or white. (I have read that perhaps with blues there is. Don't concern me much as I like strong colors.)
Being more mellow can be an asset to some GSD owners, perhaps the majority of owners. It is not a detraction for all GSD owners, just some for entirely valid subjective reason as well.
by Mystere on 10 March 2009 - 00:03
What, beauty and grace of movement don't have intrinic value
Sure it does!! That's why I can spend hours watching horses jumping at Spruce Meadows and get up at o'dark :thirty to watch the equestrian events during the Olympics! I can also spend time just watching Dobermanns move, too. They are the figure skaters/ballet dancers of the dog world.
I love ballet, Dance Theatre of Harlem, Alvin Ailey Dance Theatre, and ballroom dancing,too. I sincerely regret that I never saw Nureyev dance. Can watch dance performances for hours. If I could have only one type of music, it would be classical guitar--preferably played by Segovia.
My appreciation for beauty and movement have nothing to do with it. I love a sunset as much as the next person (unless I am driving and hours from home). If I wanted an ugly dog, I'd have a Neapolitan mastiff. I always loved getting compliments on my beautiful gsds at the parks and on the streets. But, I would rather have an ugly gsd with an outstanding temperament, drives and working ability. Right now, I have a bitch puppy who may never grow into her ears, is a bit stretched and has a crook in her tail. I will probably have to show her only under Scheld and only if he is blind drunk to get a solid "G." I would certainly rather she was as beautiful as my other schutzhund dogs have been, but oh well. She works beautifully.
Sure it does!! That's why I can spend hours watching horses jumping at Spruce Meadows and get up at o'dark :thirty to watch the equestrian events during the Olympics! I can also spend time just watching Dobermanns move, too. They are the figure skaters/ballet dancers of the dog world.
I love ballet, Dance Theatre of Harlem, Alvin Ailey Dance Theatre, and ballroom dancing,too. I sincerely regret that I never saw Nureyev dance. Can watch dance performances for hours. If I could have only one type of music, it would be classical guitar--preferably played by Segovia.
My appreciation for beauty and movement have nothing to do with it. I love a sunset as much as the next person (unless I am driving and hours from home). If I wanted an ugly dog, I'd have a Neapolitan mastiff. I always loved getting compliments on my beautiful gsds at the parks and on the streets. But, I would rather have an ugly gsd with an outstanding temperament, drives and working ability. Right now, I have a bitch puppy who may never grow into her ears, is a bit stretched and has a crook in her tail. I will probably have to show her only under Scheld and only if he is blind drunk to get a solid "G." I would certainly rather she was as beautiful as my other schutzhund dogs have been, but oh well. She works beautifully.
by HighDesertGSD on 10 March 2009 - 00:03
"If one truly cares about the breed (and some of us have very personal reasons for loyalty to this breed), personal preferences can't always be part of the equation. "
I can tell you that I don't care about the breed, if breed means a set of rules handed down by some German guy who lived a hundred years ago.
I would say that the need for high drive GSD's decrease with decreasing lot size of homes (and availability of firearms). Herding isn't done much anymore so must the name GSD change?
There is also lines within a breed that emphasize different traits of a breed to fill the niches.
For the Labs there is field and show lines.
I can tell you that I don't care about the breed, if breed means a set of rules handed down by some German guy who lived a hundred years ago.
I would say that the need for high drive GSD's decrease with decreasing lot size of homes (and availability of firearms). Herding isn't done much anymore so must the name GSD change?
There is also lines within a breed that emphasize different traits of a breed to fill the niches.
For the Labs there is field and show lines.
by HighDesertGSD on 10 March 2009 - 00:03
"My appreciation for beauty and movement have nothing to do with it."
I bet it does.
I bet you do not appreciate grace in movement and beauty in bodyline in an animal as much as I do, or as much as a large percentage of the public does.
I bet it does.
I bet you do not appreciate grace in movement and beauty in bodyline in an animal as much as I do, or as much as a large percentage of the public does.
by habanaro on 10 March 2009 - 00:03
Ugly is truly underated and lower maintenace using less aerosol products on both handler as well as the dog. So being ugly leads to a calmer more fufilling lifestyle. and is better for the enviroment.
Yes we really don't need drivey dogs, no need for police, SAR, there are still farmers who use use gsds any real world stuff thats really all just fiction
Another piece of fiction is that a drivey dog can't be a well behaved dog.
I have had a showline dog and yes she would work..
The german shepherd is a working breed I am not saying there can't be some variation among lines but lets not turn the GSD into the "trophy wife" breed
I.E she ain't pretty she just looks that way,,,
Yes we really don't need drivey dogs, no need for police, SAR, there are still farmers who use use gsds any real world stuff thats really all just fiction
Another piece of fiction is that a drivey dog can't be a well behaved dog.
I have had a showline dog and yes she would work..
The german shepherd is a working breed I am not saying there can't be some variation among lines but lets not turn the GSD into the "trophy wife" breed
I.E she ain't pretty she just looks that way,,,
by Mystere on 10 March 2009 - 00:03
Labs are another breed that "show" has ruined. Have you seen the labs in the AKC show ring? They look nothing like the field-bred labs and lack the working abilities and temperment as well. The show labs are roly-poly dogs that could never walk any distance in a field. Hell, I can outrun them!
by sueincc on 10 March 2009 - 02:03
Yes indeed, there is a niche. People who want GSDs but in reality are not an appropriate home for a correctly bred GSD. People who want a dog that looks like a GSD but is perfectly content to be home alone all day, watch TV at night with the family, maybe go to the park on the weekends, or if it's REALLY lucky, go for a walk around the block once a week or so. Frankly, I think breeding for this "type" of GSD generation after generation just to fill that "niche" has more to do with making bank and your ego than giving a damn about ruining a once purpose driven breed. Just because you can doesn't make it right.
Please stop rationalizing with the BS like home sizes. The market for GSDs with a correct temperment is what it is. What are you worried about, extinction of the breed? Who cares if it is no longer representative of the breed? A GSD is NOT a pretty picture put here for you to look at, it's a WORKING dog first and foremost. You don't dumb down a breed just so you can sell more puppies to the clueless.
Please stop rationalizing with the BS like home sizes. The market for GSDs with a correct temperment is what it is. What are you worried about, extinction of the breed? Who cares if it is no longer representative of the breed? A GSD is NOT a pretty picture put here for you to look at, it's a WORKING dog first and foremost. You don't dumb down a breed just so you can sell more puppies to the clueless.
by Rik on 10 March 2009 - 05:03
Geez, I wanted to respond to some of this, but I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
Have to put it off till later.
Rik
Have to put it off till later.
Rik
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