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by Rik on 09 March 2009 - 05:03
by Sunsilver on 09 March 2009 - 05:03
A once in a lifetime dog, eh, Mystere? Funny how they seemed to be a lot more common back then, and no, I don't think it's just us oldsters looking back through rose-coloured glasses. I've heard far too many stories similar to yours.
Nice to see there's one thing you and I can agree on!
For me, since I couldn't have a dog as a kid, due to my brother's allergies, my once-in-a-lifetime dog was my cousin's farm collie. This was a purebred Scotch collie, they way they looked before Queen Victoria crossed them with borzois to give them that pencil-thin snout and bred most of the brains out of them. Her name was Sparky, she was sable and white, and a little smaller than the Lassie-type collie.
We could do anything with her. We played hide and seek, and the person doing the seeking got Sparky to help them out. No one could hide from that nose!
One day, a salesman came by when my aunt was home alone. He had a rather loud voice, and waved his arms around a lot. Sparky parked herself between the man and my aunt, and as the man's sales pitch got louder, she began to growl softly. The man took his tractor cap, and whacked her across the face with it, and told her to 'shaddup!' Next thing he knew, he had a set of teeth buried in his wrist.
My aunt looked him in the eye, and said, "Now, you asked for that! Don't complain!" She took him into the house to tend to the bite, and that was the end of it.
Sparky herded the cows, and guarded the property. When they had to keep her inside in bad weather, stuff would sometimes go missing, as some of their neighbours had light fingers.
It's almost impossible to find these dogs anywhere now. The breed is all but extinct.
As for the show collie, they are in even worse shape than the American GSD. Most of them carry far more coat than is practical for a true working dog, and something like 40% of them have eye problems. "Collie eye" is so common that most breeders will still breed an animal with a mild case of it. Genetically, they are so inbred that even dogs from different litters are as closely related as if they were siblings.
Okay, sorry for the digression...I'll shut up now!
But if you think the American shepherd is in bad shape, just check out the collie sometime. I did some research recently, and no one bats an eyelash at doing grandfather/grand-daughter matings!
Nice to see there's one thing you and I can agree on!
For me, since I couldn't have a dog as a kid, due to my brother's allergies, my once-in-a-lifetime dog was my cousin's farm collie. This was a purebred Scotch collie, they way they looked before Queen Victoria crossed them with borzois to give them that pencil-thin snout and bred most of the brains out of them. Her name was Sparky, she was sable and white, and a little smaller than the Lassie-type collie.
We could do anything with her. We played hide and seek, and the person doing the seeking got Sparky to help them out. No one could hide from that nose!
One day, a salesman came by when my aunt was home alone. He had a rather loud voice, and waved his arms around a lot. Sparky parked herself between the man and my aunt, and as the man's sales pitch got louder, she began to growl softly. The man took his tractor cap, and whacked her across the face with it, and told her to 'shaddup!' Next thing he knew, he had a set of teeth buried in his wrist.
My aunt looked him in the eye, and said, "Now, you asked for that! Don't complain!" She took him into the house to tend to the bite, and that was the end of it.
Sparky herded the cows, and guarded the property. When they had to keep her inside in bad weather, stuff would sometimes go missing, as some of their neighbours had light fingers.
It's almost impossible to find these dogs anywhere now. The breed is all but extinct.
As for the show collie, they are in even worse shape than the American GSD. Most of them carry far more coat than is practical for a true working dog, and something like 40% of them have eye problems. "Collie eye" is so common that most breeders will still breed an animal with a mild case of it. Genetically, they are so inbred that even dogs from different litters are as closely related as if they were siblings.
Okay, sorry for the digression...I'll shut up now!
But if you think the American shepherd is in bad shape, just check out the collie sometime. I did some research recently, and no one bats an eyelash at doing grandfather/grand-daughter matings!
by Mystere on 09 March 2009 - 05:03
I am aware of the disaster AKC has made of the collie. It is a sin and a shame. Yes, it is at least as bad as what has been done to the Ambred gsd. So, that's two things we agree on.
by Rik on 09 March 2009 - 05:03
Sunsilver, the first dog that my mom allowed me to keep, I named "Sparky"
He was from a litter from my Grandfather's collie bitch.
My mother would never allow me a dog before him.
He was with me all through my early years and I cannot believe that you have brought him back to me.
Thanks,
Rik
He was from a litter from my Grandfather's collie bitch.
My mother would never allow me a dog before him.
He was with me all through my early years and I cannot believe that you have brought him back to me.
Thanks,
Rik
by HighDesertGSD on 09 March 2009 - 17:03
"highdesert, I would not have normally repiied to this, but since you have seen fit to call me out, lets set the ground rules. Have you bred or finished any AKC Champions. Please post yours and I will post mine.I've been in this "who's bigger" pissing contest many times and I have yet to come out short."
What triggered this tirade? Who called you out?
What triggered this tirade? Who called you out?
by HighDesertGSD on 09 March 2009 - 17:03
People can own a GSD for different reasons, or different emphasis of a collection of traits or assets of the GSD.
Very simple concept. It is called tolerance and mutual respect. What is the source of such vehemence? I wonder.
IMO, the Am Showline has the best comformation. I like the looks of this line the best. I accept that it is generally no SchH material, but I believe most people are not looking for SchH material. My Am Showline girl is still quite protective and she is not a fear biter. She is very sociable with other dogs. I believe she does not have the attention span, aggression, and is generally not intelligent enough for SchH, but she is beautiful in form and in movement, which give me great delight to simply look at her. I am not reserved to state that appearance of a pet is of prime importance to me.
Those who think that 50% or more GSD owners want to be in the SchH sport are taking their sport too seriously and are out of touch with reality.
I also like the higher working abilities of other lines, and I will soon part with a fair amount of money to get one but it must have acceptable appearance.
Very simple concept. It is called tolerance and mutual respect. What is the source of such vehemence? I wonder.
IMO, the Am Showline has the best comformation. I like the looks of this line the best. I accept that it is generally no SchH material, but I believe most people are not looking for SchH material. My Am Showline girl is still quite protective and she is not a fear biter. She is very sociable with other dogs. I believe she does not have the attention span, aggression, and is generally not intelligent enough for SchH, but she is beautiful in form and in movement, which give me great delight to simply look at her. I am not reserved to state that appearance of a pet is of prime importance to me.
Those who think that 50% or more GSD owners want to be in the SchH sport are taking their sport too seriously and are out of touch with reality.
I also like the higher working abilities of other lines, and I will soon part with a fair amount of money to get one but it must have acceptable appearance.
by Mystere on 09 March 2009 - 20:03
Quote by HighDesertGSD:
Those who think that 50% or more GSD owners want to be in the SchH sport are taking their sport too seriously and are out of touch with reality.
I don't think anyone said anything of the sort. HOWEVER, John Q. Public DOES want a dog that is as free of health issues as possible, is clear-headed enough to be be a good family member, and has a stable, social temperament. Not every WL or European line gsd is suitable for schutzhund in terms of drive, social aggression, work ethic, etc. And, I have seen WL dogs with over-the-top drives who had temperament and nerve so stable that they could easily be suited for families as a pet, albeit, one that would also require a good deal of exercise. Why? Because temperament is FIRST with the WL breeders and enthusiasts, so it is one of the things breeders are specifically breeding for. I don't see that at all in the Ambred lines. Like the German SL, they are being bred with appearance and gait as the first priority. Not temperament.
That is, IMO, where the true issues begin.
Those who think that 50% or more GSD owners want to be in the SchH sport are taking their sport too seriously and are out of touch with reality.
I don't think anyone said anything of the sort. HOWEVER, John Q. Public DOES want a dog that is as free of health issues as possible, is clear-headed enough to be be a good family member, and has a stable, social temperament. Not every WL or European line gsd is suitable for schutzhund in terms of drive, social aggression, work ethic, etc. And, I have seen WL dogs with over-the-top drives who had temperament and nerve so stable that they could easily be suited for families as a pet, albeit, one that would also require a good deal of exercise. Why? Because temperament is FIRST with the WL breeders and enthusiasts, so it is one of the things breeders are specifically breeding for. I don't see that at all in the Ambred lines. Like the German SL, they are being bred with appearance and gait as the first priority. Not temperament.
That is, IMO, where the true issues begin.
by HighDesertGSD on 09 March 2009 - 21:03
"HOWEVER, John Q. Public DOES want a dog that is as free of health issues as possible, is clear-headed enough to be be a good family member, and has a stable, social temperament."
This describes my Am Showline girl rather well, as good as any line.
This describes my Am Showline girl rather well, as good as any line.
by HighDesertGSD on 09 March 2009 - 21:03
"Like the German SL, they are being bred with appearance and gait as the first priority. Not temperament."
But appearance and gait can be the priority. Why not? Why can't people accept this preference in a GSD or Alsatian or by whatever name? I ask this question again.
There needs to be sufficiency in temperament in a GSD. I agree. My Am showline is very sociable with other dogs, very affectionate, stable but also mellower than many imports. She also retains a lot of protective instinct of the breed. She doesn't behave like a Golden. Just try to get close to me suddenly when she is with me. You will know she is not a Golden. Whether she actually can be trained to attack aggressively I can't say. So what is so inadequate about her temperament?
My girl is a great asset as an exercise buddy. She has great thick paws, well-arched toes, a deep chest with great aerobic efficency. She is tireless. She fast trots 3.5 miles every two days with me, almost tirelessly, just that I don't generally do more. She is very fit for her own sake, as an animal. So she, I presume, can't "work" much, what is the issue?
She has three generations of complete OFA records, two generations H&E, The sire has two generations of OFA H&E. So what is necessarily undersirably healthwise with my pups than imports? So a pup from two roach backs with four generations of hip certification is necessarily significantly less risky? At one time even SV did not certify for ED.
I ask again, what mechanisms have alledgedly filtered out other genetic diseases of imported GSDs? Anyone who can't at least suggest the mechanisms should not just throw out allegations.
Many problems with the GSD in America is "no line", "both parents on premise" indiscriminate breeding, not the American showline.
But appearance and gait can be the priority. Why not? Why can't people accept this preference in a GSD or Alsatian or by whatever name? I ask this question again.
There needs to be sufficiency in temperament in a GSD. I agree. My Am showline is very sociable with other dogs, very affectionate, stable but also mellower than many imports. She also retains a lot of protective instinct of the breed. She doesn't behave like a Golden. Just try to get close to me suddenly when she is with me. You will know she is not a Golden. Whether she actually can be trained to attack aggressively I can't say. So what is so inadequate about her temperament?
My girl is a great asset as an exercise buddy. She has great thick paws, well-arched toes, a deep chest with great aerobic efficency. She is tireless. She fast trots 3.5 miles every two days with me, almost tirelessly, just that I don't generally do more. She is very fit for her own sake, as an animal. So she, I presume, can't "work" much, what is the issue?
She has three generations of complete OFA records, two generations H&E, The sire has two generations of OFA H&E. So what is necessarily undersirably healthwise with my pups than imports? So a pup from two roach backs with four generations of hip certification is necessarily significantly less risky? At one time even SV did not certify for ED.
I ask again, what mechanisms have alledgedly filtered out other genetic diseases of imported GSDs? Anyone who can't at least suggest the mechanisms should not just throw out allegations.
Many problems with the GSD in America is "no line", "both parents on premise" indiscriminate breeding, not the American showline.
by HighDesertGSD on 09 March 2009 - 22:03
"I'm just reading the usual bashing and for a change I will shut up cause it doesn't do shit to talk on this database anyway!! "
The satisfaction is in actually being able to place all of my pups in very good homes, I believe, albeit not at a high price.
My pups were sold on their pedigree, appearance of mom and dad, grandpa and grandmom, OFA records, number of GV's, multiple times selects in the pedigree, and their pictures. I got quite a few wows.
My major filtering question was: what is your primary reason for owning a GSD? If the answer was protection, I took down the phone number so that the person couldn't call again to give another reason. I say you should better get a pup with SchH parents and be commiitted in training it very well.
For most people a dog is a pet, first and foremost. It seems that a lot of perspective GSD owners agree.
The satisfaction is in actually being able to place all of my pups in very good homes, I believe, albeit not at a high price.
My pups were sold on their pedigree, appearance of mom and dad, grandpa and grandmom, OFA records, number of GV's, multiple times selects in the pedigree, and their pictures. I got quite a few wows.
My major filtering question was: what is your primary reason for owning a GSD? If the answer was protection, I took down the phone number so that the person couldn't call again to give another reason. I say you should better get a pup with SchH parents and be commiitted in training it very well.
For most people a dog is a pet, first and foremost. It seems that a lot of perspective GSD owners agree.
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