This is a placeholder text
Group text
by Aadilah07 on 28 November 2012 - 20:11
Susie, very well said...
by Blitzen on 28 November 2012 - 20:11
Susie, I'm with you 100%. IMO it's just not too much to ask of a legit breeder.
by Prager on 28 November 2012 - 20:11
Susie so you think that OFA is a proof that the hips are good or bad and you do not trust the breeder. If you do not trust the breeder then such untrustworthy breeder may submit fake x rays to OFA and then you will trust that OFA data!?!
It does not make much sense . Does it? Also what is legit breeder? What ever. I give up.
It does not make much sense . Does it? Also what is legit breeder? What ever. I give up.
by Gustav on 28 November 2012 - 21:11
I think that people like Hans and myself have made it plain that we do not advocate everyone to look at things from our perspective, or that others are wrong for where they put their emphasis. We see things from a slightly different perspective and feel that our experience and knowledge has allowed us to be successful in our ways. I do not know why people get upset when others achieve equal or better results doing things differently....makes no sense to me. I don't care how others do their hip analysis, if they are successful a high percent of the time.....I acknowledge their success...if they are not then it's their problem. At the end of the day a breeder is judged by the quality of the dogs they produce on a consistent basis, to my way of thinking.
by susie on 28 November 2012 - 21:11
I try to think global.
Maybe I think about buying a puppy out of a sister of one of your males. You are not the breeder, somewhere else is.
Before buying a puppy I tend to take a look at the littermates of my puppy´s parents, the ancestors, the siblings...
First thing I see is a not OFAed stud. - Maybe you owned the parents of said brother/sister, too. You don´t like OFA, so no proven x-rays found.
And on and on and on....
I believe without a doubt that you are able to read x-rays, but this doesn´t help a potential puppy buyer doing any research.
And for the breed it doesn´t help at all.
If there would be a lot more x-rays been send to SV/OFA neither HD nor ED would be the big problem they are.
Sorry, English is not my first language, this is too complex for me to discuss in a foreign language, but insulting each other as several of you do for several days now doesn´t help either.
There are always two sides of a medal, ALL of us know that there is the possibility to buy a sick puppy out of healthy parents, but we should try to breed the best we can get.
Maybe I´m really old fashioned, but I believe in statistics, the more x-rays, the better we will understand this problem.
Maybe I think about buying a puppy out of a sister of one of your males. You are not the breeder, somewhere else is.
Before buying a puppy I tend to take a look at the littermates of my puppy´s parents, the ancestors, the siblings...
First thing I see is a not OFAed stud. - Maybe you owned the parents of said brother/sister, too. You don´t like OFA, so no proven x-rays found.
And on and on and on....
I believe without a doubt that you are able to read x-rays, but this doesn´t help a potential puppy buyer doing any research.
And for the breed it doesn´t help at all.
If there would be a lot more x-rays been send to SV/OFA neither HD nor ED would be the big problem they are.
Sorry, English is not my first language, this is too complex for me to discuss in a foreign language, but insulting each other as several of you do for several days now doesn´t help either.
There are always two sides of a medal, ALL of us know that there is the possibility to buy a sick puppy out of healthy parents, but we should try to breed the best we can get.
Maybe I´m really old fashioned, but I believe in statistics, the more x-rays, the better we will understand this problem.
by susie on 28 November 2012 - 21:11
Response to Prager:
I don´t trust HUMANS. Being involved in German Shepherds for decades I KNOW that breeder and owner tend to x-ray, but they don´t tend to send them to OFA/SV as soon as they are afraid of a bad outcome.
Even if I trust you / the breeder I don´t trust the people who bought the littermates or several ancestors of my potential puppy.Did they x- ray? Why is there no proof?
Sending wrong x-rays to SV is fraud, a vet not checking the chip or the tattoo needs to become blocked, mistakes within SVanalyse happen, but a bad hip still is a bad hip, and a good hip still remains a good hip.
Normally the results are quite exact.
I don´t trust HUMANS. Being involved in German Shepherds for decades I KNOW that breeder and owner tend to x-ray, but they don´t tend to send them to OFA/SV as soon as they are afraid of a bad outcome.
Even if I trust you / the breeder I don´t trust the people who bought the littermates or several ancestors of my potential puppy.Did they x- ray? Why is there no proof?
Sending wrong x-rays to SV is fraud, a vet not checking the chip or the tattoo needs to become blocked, mistakes within SVanalyse happen, but a bad hip still is a bad hip, and a good hip still remains a good hip.
Normally the results are quite exact.
by Prager on 28 November 2012 - 22:11
Susie
Yes it is a fraud and murder is wrong, but it still happen. I believe to my own eys only. from not that long time ago Idecided to do OFA to make people happy.
But I do think based on 46 year old OFAfaileure that OFA is pretty much usless at best. For me to do OFA is business decision. People ask are your dogs OFAd? Yes. Next question. Does tha mean that the dog has better probability not to develop HD? ABSOLUTELY NOT! You and others keep mentioning a buyers doing research. If the research is asking if the parents are OFAd ( as pretty much all the buyers do ask) then such "research" is totally useless and yes deceptive and gives the buyer false sense of accomplishment and security. . Even pedigree of dogs with OFA will not help to do such research what so ever. If is an enigma. There is much more to it then that. German Z V V system is a good start. LMX system is a good start. Asking if the parent of dog is OFAd if useless and best.
Yes it is a fraud and murder is wrong, but it still happen. I believe to my own eys only. from not that long time ago Idecided to do OFA to make people happy.
But I do think based on 46 year old OFAfaileure that OFA is pretty much usless at best. For me to do OFA is business decision. People ask are your dogs OFAd? Yes. Next question. Does tha mean that the dog has better probability not to develop HD? ABSOLUTELY NOT! You and others keep mentioning a buyers doing research. If the research is asking if the parents are OFAd ( as pretty much all the buyers do ask) then such "research" is totally useless and yes deceptive and gives the buyer false sense of accomplishment and security. . Even pedigree of dogs with OFA will not help to do such research what so ever. If is an enigma. There is much more to it then that. German Z V V system is a good start. LMX system is a good start. Asking if the parent of dog is OFAd if useless and best.
by susie on 28 November 2012 - 22:11
Quote: German Z V V system is a good start. LMX system is a good start.
But this only works with as much x-rays as possible - and that´s my point.
It´s late over here / 11.45 pm
Take care
But this only works with as much x-rays as possible - and that´s my point.
It´s late over here / 11.45 pm
Take care
by Prager on 28 November 2012 - 22:11
NO! UGH!> The main thing is that you must have good x rays data in that system and I am saying that OFA or even other systems are failing that premise thus system with poor data is harmful.
by bcrawford on 28 November 2012 - 23:11
NO! UGH!> The main thing is that you must have good x rays data in that system and I am saying that OFA or even other systems are failing that premise thus system with poor data is harmful.
Exactly. It's like the old saying.. "Put crap in and you get crap out!"
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top