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by leeshideaway on 09 December 2009 - 02:12
Lots of gripe - not about working vs show.
One day I was talking with friend of mine who has been breeding dogs in the US for a very long time. (and goes to Germany)
He mentioned that many GSD dog people in the US are not comrades like GSD people in Germany.
He also mentioned that in Germany, most look past any personal differences and focus on the welfare of the breed or breeding.
I found that interesting.
Lee
One day I was talking with friend of mine who has been breeding dogs in the US for a very long time. (and goes to Germany)
He mentioned that many GSD dog people in the US are not comrades like GSD people in Germany.
He also mentioned that in Germany, most look past any personal differences and focus on the welfare of the breed or breeding.
I found that interesting.
Lee
by Bob McKown on 09 December 2009 - 03:12
Maggie:
My dogs don,t work out of fear I work my dogs in fear because in the back of my mind I,m always concerened becuase of my size and my occasional clumsiness of steping on a paw. Case in point I was down in Indy working my Axel this summer when I was doing the small side of the free healing excersize I turn and came back and stopped waited and continued healing when I made a left turn to go to the group I stepped on Axels right frt paw at which time he gave me a good shot in the thigh K9,s on both side torn a 8 inch gash in my shorts also. I yelled Foo,s and continued A friend asked "are you going to let him get away with that" my reply was "i just put 580 pounds on top of his 3 inch paw and twisted... I kinda desereved it" his comment was okay. I had blood going down my leg till the routine was done.
I,ve seen dogs work out of pressure they all look like there waiting for the other shoe to drop it,s not pretty.
Snaip described the training of a high drive dog very well as to it,s mind set for reward.I know it,s tough for you to comprehend since your experience with working dogs is from... lots O reading but thats okay Maggie those that can can and those that can,t continue to quote those who can.
I,ve lived with my size for 46 years do you really think your grade school attempts at insults have any effect? I tell you what Maggie you prove to me you can supply a good home and honest training and a will to try your best to train a dog in Schutzhund and If the litter I mentiond above comes to fruitation I will give you a puppy from the litter no charge I,ll transfer the dog to you with limited registration and a signed contract free of charge and all I,ll ask is you train it to the best of your abalities.
I don,t hold grudges, just people to there word.
My dogs don,t work out of fear I work my dogs in fear because in the back of my mind I,m always concerened becuase of my size and my occasional clumsiness of steping on a paw. Case in point I was down in Indy working my Axel this summer when I was doing the small side of the free healing excersize I turn and came back and stopped waited and continued healing when I made a left turn to go to the group I stepped on Axels right frt paw at which time he gave me a good shot in the thigh K9,s on both side torn a 8 inch gash in my shorts also. I yelled Foo,s and continued A friend asked "are you going to let him get away with that" my reply was "i just put 580 pounds on top of his 3 inch paw and twisted... I kinda desereved it" his comment was okay. I had blood going down my leg till the routine was done.
I,ve seen dogs work out of pressure they all look like there waiting for the other shoe to drop it,s not pretty.
Snaip described the training of a high drive dog very well as to it,s mind set for reward.I know it,s tough for you to comprehend since your experience with working dogs is from... lots O reading but thats okay Maggie those that can can and those that can,t continue to quote those who can.
I,ve lived with my size for 46 years do you really think your grade school attempts at insults have any effect? I tell you what Maggie you prove to me you can supply a good home and honest training and a will to try your best to train a dog in Schutzhund and If the litter I mentiond above comes to fruitation I will give you a puppy from the litter no charge I,ll transfer the dog to you with limited registration and a signed contract free of charge and all I,ll ask is you train it to the best of your abalities.
I don,t hold grudges, just people to there word.
by Slamdunc on 09 December 2009 - 03:12
Bob,
Very nice post. I've read some good things about you written by people who have met / know you in the sport world. I've seen your dog's pedigrees and they are very nice. Good luck with your planned breeding and your training. I know you work hard at it. You have a good sense of humour and I enjoy your posts.
Jim
BTW, I wouldn't blame the dog either.
by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 09 December 2009 - 05:12
This thread made me laugh several times, funny posts,good posts, posts for chuckles...
About the below quote. The poster gets on my nerves a lot here, that's neither her fault or mine, just different personalities/outlook on life. But I will respond, as it feels like a valid question, asked sincerely.
The dog is not "taught" to go for the armwith a sleeve and not the armwith a stick.The dog is bitting whatever is CLOSER/CLOSEST to him -that happens to be a sleeve. No helper will last much longer than initial bite without wearing a sleeve.
Also, just curious- have you ever held a said stick in your hand? Physically held it? It is a prop, not really designed to do any harm, but rather SIMULATE a threat. it is a bendy, spongy, padded stick designed NOT to cause serious injury, as the whole protection routine is a simulation of the real threat.
If you had it in your hand and whacked yourself semi hard across the arm, leg, hip, whatever you wouldn't feel all that much.
Also, dogs cannot be taught to go for the stick as it's always held with a raised arm while the sleeve is at the forefront, so a dog goes to what's immediately in front of him. It doesn't matter that's a sleeve, sleeve is for the human's protection, if the decoy stuckhis dick out and that was the closest the dog would bite that, or his foot or whatever was right there in front of him.
Quote: "Also, I am curious about this .... in the "protection phase" of the Sport, why isn't the dog taught to go after the Arm/Hand that is holding the stick.... why the other arm? What good would that do in True Protection? "
For the other posters: For the umpteenth time - a GSD is a working dog! Utility is beautiful. Beautiful is what beautiful does.
About the below quote. The poster gets on my nerves a lot here, that's neither her fault or mine, just different personalities/outlook on life. But I will respond, as it feels like a valid question, asked sincerely.
The dog is not "taught" to go for the armwith a sleeve and not the armwith a stick.The dog is bitting whatever is CLOSER/CLOSEST to him -that happens to be a sleeve. No helper will last much longer than initial bite without wearing a sleeve.
Also, just curious- have you ever held a said stick in your hand? Physically held it? It is a prop, not really designed to do any harm, but rather SIMULATE a threat. it is a bendy, spongy, padded stick designed NOT to cause serious injury, as the whole protection routine is a simulation of the real threat.
If you had it in your hand and whacked yourself semi hard across the arm, leg, hip, whatever you wouldn't feel all that much.
Also, dogs cannot be taught to go for the stick as it's always held with a raised arm while the sleeve is at the forefront, so a dog goes to what's immediately in front of him. It doesn't matter that's a sleeve, sleeve is for the human's protection, if the decoy stuckhis dick out and that was the closest the dog would bite that, or his foot or whatever was right there in front of him.
Quote: "Also, I am curious about this .... in the "protection phase" of the Sport, why isn't the dog taught to go after the Arm/Hand that is holding the stick.... why the other arm? What good would that do in True Protection? "
For the other posters: For the umpteenth time - a GSD is a working dog! Utility is beautiful. Beautiful is what beautiful does.
by steve1 on 09 December 2009 - 07:12
Maggie
Because you do not agree with what a person says in a post, That does not mean that you are in conflict with them
We are all entitled to our own opinion
Now regards Orry
There is a lot of Orrys Blood line over here in Belgium, some very good some as always not so, that is in all dogs but whatever dog there is Orry is only part of the bloodline so just orry cannot be picked up for anything good or bad not if it is out of the first generation the permentations of breeding and ancesters is too much, But there are no problems at all with any Dogs bloodline living in a house with the family including Orry's
Now Maggie, you keep telling me it is all in the Genes, Now if that is the case then you were born from bad Genes because of the way you act so aggressively against other folk who do not see things the way you do or what you believe in You call us Novices when you know nothing about us you call us novices when you yourself know nothing about the sport of Schutzund. but you keep harping on, and then you lose control of yourself and the way you keep underlining posts say that much, i feel sorry for your kids if what you say is right and the generation after them
Now you have a gripe with me because i have not read your bit on Temperament, I have told you i have trained many breeds of Dogs Middle to Large Dogs now for near on 60 years in Obed etc give or take a year, In that time i have met and handled all sorts of temperamental Dogs and got some to come around the odd one not, So i can recognize it when i see it in an animal i do not need to read up what someone i do not know puts there views into print and treat it as correct
And as for genetics i have been breding racing pigeons all my life, and the breeding of Racing pigeons regards genetics are more complicated than Dogs , Cats , Horses, so on that score i do know what is what other wise i would never have stayed at the top most of my life time with then for my present family is over 20 years in the development of Line and inbreeding to keep us among the top not only in the UK but now over in Belgium, but that is another subject
I will finish off with this Maggie, you call people out and you try and put them down Myself and Sue are two good examples, Bob is another one, I only know Sue through her posts and she knows the Sport of Schutzund and i can tell you i too know what it what, As regards Bob i know a little more and you will not get a more dedicated man in the sport he loves and he knows what he is saying
As regards training a dog by fear where the hell do you get that from No one that i know do that, you cannot never win training a Dog or a child that way you train a dog with disapline meaning the right corrections at the right time and with firmness but kindness, an ill treated dog will not work for you or anyone, and i have on the osdd occasion seen it and i have stopped the handler doing it on a copule of occasions even when it is not my business as told but a dog being knocked about i make it my business
Bob
if you weight 580 lb, then please do not step on my foot when we meet for i only weigh 150lb, and i too like Axel will bite you
Steve1
Because you do not agree with what a person says in a post, That does not mean that you are in conflict with them
We are all entitled to our own opinion
Now regards Orry
There is a lot of Orrys Blood line over here in Belgium, some very good some as always not so, that is in all dogs but whatever dog there is Orry is only part of the bloodline so just orry cannot be picked up for anything good or bad not if it is out of the first generation the permentations of breeding and ancesters is too much, But there are no problems at all with any Dogs bloodline living in a house with the family including Orry's
Now Maggie, you keep telling me it is all in the Genes, Now if that is the case then you were born from bad Genes because of the way you act so aggressively against other folk who do not see things the way you do or what you believe in You call us Novices when you know nothing about us you call us novices when you yourself know nothing about the sport of Schutzund. but you keep harping on, and then you lose control of yourself and the way you keep underlining posts say that much, i feel sorry for your kids if what you say is right and the generation after them
Now you have a gripe with me because i have not read your bit on Temperament, I have told you i have trained many breeds of Dogs Middle to Large Dogs now for near on 60 years in Obed etc give or take a year, In that time i have met and handled all sorts of temperamental Dogs and got some to come around the odd one not, So i can recognize it when i see it in an animal i do not need to read up what someone i do not know puts there views into print and treat it as correct
And as for genetics i have been breding racing pigeons all my life, and the breeding of Racing pigeons regards genetics are more complicated than Dogs , Cats , Horses, so on that score i do know what is what other wise i would never have stayed at the top most of my life time with then for my present family is over 20 years in the development of Line and inbreeding to keep us among the top not only in the UK but now over in Belgium, but that is another subject
I will finish off with this Maggie, you call people out and you try and put them down Myself and Sue are two good examples, Bob is another one, I only know Sue through her posts and she knows the Sport of Schutzund and i can tell you i too know what it what, As regards Bob i know a little more and you will not get a more dedicated man in the sport he loves and he knows what he is saying
As regards training a dog by fear where the hell do you get that from No one that i know do that, you cannot never win training a Dog or a child that way you train a dog with disapline meaning the right corrections at the right time and with firmness but kindness, an ill treated dog will not work for you or anyone, and i have on the osdd occasion seen it and i have stopped the handler doing it on a copule of occasions even when it is not my business as told but a dog being knocked about i make it my business
Bob
if you weight 580 lb, then please do not step on my foot when we meet for i only weigh 150lb, and i too like Axel will bite you
Steve1
by MaggieMae on 09 December 2009 - 08:12
Steve - I sent you a PM
by steve1 on 09 December 2009 - 10:12
Maggie
Thank you
I replied to your mail before i read your post above
Steve1
Thank you
I replied to your mail before i read your post above
Steve1
by Keith Grossman on 09 December 2009 - 12:12
"Boy, the working vs show threads are so heated and passionate."
LOL! No doubt, Jim; see why I learned to avoid them a long time ago?
LOL! No doubt, Jim; see why I learned to avoid them a long time ago?
by judron55 on 09 December 2009 - 12:12
People who think high drive dogs can not live in the house are total idiots in my eyes and have not got a clue about dogs.
Now this I like......they all start out as puppies....they can learn anything if you are capable of teaching them. Most people don't take the time.....!
ron
Now this I like......they all start out as puppies....they can learn anything if you are capable of teaching them. Most people don't take the time.....!
ron
by Bob McKown on 09 December 2009 - 12:12
Folks it is all about the passion, If we werent passionate about our breed we would be a boring lot. Nothing said on this site or any other is anything to get bent over. Everyone has there opinions yes sometimes we should just let things go and be the better for it but the other problem is we are human some of us are better humans then others and can just choise to ignore, a lesson some of us should learn from.
My mother told me from early on I would argue with my shadow if it could speak but she also told me to keep my elbows off the table (it didnt work either).
No matter whom I have disagreed with on this site I would be more then happy to set down with over a meal and a drink and continue the joust to me we learn the most form our differences. It,s the differences that make us unique and intresting.
The only thing that truly pisses me off is thiefs and liars, and i,ve met a couple of those here also.
Smouchies to all here...
My mother told me from early on I would argue with my shadow if it could speak but she also told me to keep my elbows off the table (it didnt work either).
No matter whom I have disagreed with on this site I would be more then happy to set down with over a meal and a drink and continue the joust to me we learn the most form our differences. It,s the differences that make us unique and intresting.
The only thing that truly pisses me off is thiefs and liars, and i,ve met a couple of those here also.
Smouchies to all here...
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